Brexit, for once some facts.

[Kudoscycles]

You aren't a bad lot, or should that be weren't such a bad lot, but I feel that since you had Thatcher as PM things have gone seriously downhill. I remember going back to London for a few days in the 1980's and being shocked by what it had become.

There is no such thing as society: there are individual men and women, and there are families.

That is what killed the UK as a nation, you are all on your own now unless you have a family which makes several people together on their own.

Disagree,London is the most interesting multi cultural capital in the world,it's the reason why the bankers will have to be forced to leave London,they love London,they don't like Frankfurt.
I love London,I love it's culture,I love the mix of people,I love the food,I love the architecture,I love the history,I love the theatre,I love the old London pubs. And it's getting better,regeneration of areas like Borough Market,the crossrail,the river transport.
We should be proud of our capital city.
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

derf, I will include oldgroaner and old tom in this so I can't be accused of picking on you as an immigrant. The three of you do nothing but complain about the UK, insult many of the population by calling them xenophobic or racist, trash working people's reputations and to be generally disparaging about anything to do with UK culture. I can't think of any positive things that any of the three of you have said about the UK.

Why then, are the three of you still here? Would it not be better to leave it all behind?

Once again a scurrilous attack when you haven't got anything to contribute to the debate, and I would be interested if you can point me at posts I have made that support your allegations
For instance: when did I complain about the UK?
Call the population Zenophobic or Racist?
Trash working people's reputation and be generally disparaging against UK Culture?
But I will answer your last rant.
I am here because otherwise the voice of reason would be drowned by the baying of the mob, which you seem to have elected yourself representative to.
Do us all a favour, and try to stick to the topic under discussion rather than emit smoke screens of the sort you are doing to hide the fact you cannot strike telling blows through reasoned argument.
It's like watching a squid emit a cloud of ink when it feels threatened.
Personal attacks just make you look foolish.
I expect you to set yourself a higher standard than that.

 

[oldtom]

I don't believe in bombing anywhere. I would agree that we only make it worse. We should only use such means to protect the UK

From memory, that is the only intelligent and decent thing you have ever contributed.

If only you could be consistent and apply that kind of logic in other areas!

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

This morning the Express and Mail are speculating that May will call an early election banking on the fact that a massively increased majority of seats will give her the power to overrule parliamentary opposition.
Possibly it will, but perhaps she will prefer not to have that election as things are actually going in her intended direction and Brexit is on the slippery slope she was hoping for?
Interesting situation!
After all imagine her dilemma, if she did call an election, achieve a big majority, push for a Hard Brexit and it went wrong.......

 

[oldtom]

If Theresa May asks for (note asks for because she needs a 2/3 majority) a General Election,would she still be on a Brexit manifesto? Maybe she will respond to the protest vote and try to do something for those who feel that the establishment is ignoring them,after all there are 16 million voters(maybe more now) who would take the opportunity to vote for anyone offering Remain whatever the party.
Dangerous to go to the country she could get hammered.
KudosDave

As parliament seems divided across party lines on this issue, if ever there were a need for a general election extraordinarily, this 'Brexit' subject is probably the best reason possible for calling an election out of the scheduled time.

That would then force the issue. cause the parties to declare exactly what they believe in and present their manifestos with 'Brexit' plans clearly set out.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea as it would really set the cat among the pigeons and force all parties, large and small to set out their stall. Currently, too many MPs are keeping their powder dry and the public deserves better from people elected to represent them.

Tom

 

[oldtom]

The resignation letter from Stephen Phillips to his constituency party chairman has been made public and it makes interesting reading. Here it is:

http://i2.wp.com/voxpoliticalonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/161105-Stephen-Phillips-resignation-letter1.png

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

The resignation letter from Stephen Phillips to his constituency party chairman has been made public and it makes interesting reading. Here it is:

http://i2.wp.com/voxpoliticalonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/161105-Stephen-Phillips-resignation-letter1.png

Tom

The problem with a general election is two fold.

1. We have no idea of the likely exit terms
2. There is no credible opposition and what there is will lose ground unless the terms of exit that can be achieved are already known.

Frankly all that a General election will produce is Brexit in one form or another, so why bother?
Better to let the ghastly thing run it's course and the electorate to learn whether or not they have made a mistake.

 

[trex]

A lot of people are still angry with Cameron's administration and wiill still vote for brexit albeit that they will get hurt economically. Two thirds of tory seats voted for brexit, 70% of Labour seats voted for brexit. An early election will favour hard brexit, not what the majority would want.

 

[oldgroaner]

A lot of people are still angry with Cameron's administration and wiill still vote for brexit albeit that they will get hurt economically. Two thirds of tory seats voted for brexit, 70% of Labour seats voted for brexit. An early election will favour hard brexit, not what the majority would want.

Hang on a minute, from what you have just stated it looks like the Brexiters are very much in the majority!

 

[tillson]

Hang on a minute, from what you have just stated it looks like the Brexiters are very much in the majority!

BINGO!

 

[tillson]

no, we complain about brexit, insult the idiots that voted for it, calling them racist, xenophobic, trash. ironically it is exactly my respect for british culture, its liberal tradition, literature that makes me condemn brexit as an attack on all of that.

I see, so BREXIT voters are racist, xenophobic trash. Would that be all BREXIT voters?

 

[tillson]

Frankly all that a General election will produce is Brexit in one form or another, so why bother?

......and you wouldn't want an outbreak of democracy, that would be unthinkable.

 

[oldgroaner]

......and you wouldn't want an outbreak of democracy, that would be unthinkable.

Cherry picking again? I did say let the ghastly experiment go ahead remember?

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[derf]

I see, so BREXIT voters are racist, xenophobic trash. Would that be all BREXIT voters?

Pretty much
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/25/the-uncomfortable-question-was-the-brexit-vote-based-on-racism/
You're dawning realisation is gratifying

 

[anotherkiwi]

Disagree,London is the most interesting multi cultural capital in the world,it's the reason why the bankers will have to be forced to leave London,they love London,they don't like Frankfurt.
I love London,I love it's culture,I love the mix of people,I love the food,I love the architecture,I love the history,I love the theatre,I love the old London pubs. And it's getting better,regeneration of areas like Borough Market,the crossrail,the river transport.
We should be proud of our capital city.
KudosDave

Just as Paris isn't France, London isn't the UK... I lived in London for 9 months and enjoyed every minute except for the winter weather.

Didn't London vote to stay in the EU?

 

[tillson]

Pretty much
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/25/the-uncomfortable-question-was-the-brexit-vote-based-on-racism/
You're dawning realisation is gratifying

And what is the direct & first hand evidence upon which you have based your statement that pretty much ALL BREXIT voters are racist xenophobic trash. I don't think that a newspaper article really cuts it. As we have seen, newspapers can report with a slant either way.

That's a serious and nasty thing to say.

By the way, have you decided which country you are living in? Once upon a time, you told us you had moved to France following the BREXIT vote, then you slipped up in a later post and disclosed that you were actually still in the UK!

You seem, shall we say, unreliable.

 

[anotherkiwi]

He seems to have a choice as do all the other EU citizens living in the UK, they have somewhere else to go if things don't work out as "planned".

Being mobile has nothing to do with reliability.

 

[derf]

And what is the direct & first hand evidence upon which you have based your statement that pretty much ALL BREXIT voters are racist xenophobic trash. I don't think that a newspaper article really cuts it. As we have seen, newspapers can report with a slant either way.

That's a serious and nasty thing to say.

By the way, have you decided which country you are living in? Once upon a time, you told us you had moved to France following the BREXIT vote, then you slipped up in a later post and disclosed that you were actually still in the UK!

You seem, shall we say, unreliable.

So,trying to discriminate against me on the basis of nationality? I live where I please and it is none of your business where that is. Discrediting facts is a very poor alternative to presenting an argument, alternative view. Is that really all you can come up with?

 

[tillson]

He seems to have a choice as do all the other EU citizens living in the UK, they have somewhere else to go if things don't work out as "planned".

Being mobile has nothing to do with reliability.

It has when they say that they have left the UK to work in France because of BREXIT and to then accidentally let slip that they have done no such thing. That's pretty, "unreliable." Or maybe that is reliable to you. It all depends on standards.

 

[derf]

It has when they say that they have left the UK to work in France because of BREXIT and to then accidentally let slip that they have done no such thing. That's pretty, "unreliable." Or maybe that is reliable to you. It all depends on standards.

Happily we are not all trapped,like you,in our heads and lives and views of others in narrow constricting concepts of nationality. Neither,equally happily,do we all try to dismiss others on that basis as you try to.