Brexit, for once some facts.

[tillson]

Think for a moment if the EU decided it needed military muscle, who would it turn to?

Ha ha ha. The words decide and EU should never appear in the same sentence, especially in a military context!

Germany and or France, tell me now how do you rate our chances against either in out present circumstances? Care to face a German army again?

Very good to excellent.

This is where nuclear weapons play their part and why they have possibly saved millions of lives. Everyone knows that conflict will end in total destruction and annihilation if we go down the armed conflict path. So that isn't going to happen.

If you are right about Turkey getting into the EU you have no reason to celebrate something that has transpired because your foolish vote robbed us of the influence to stop it happening, and there will be lots more things happen that you will not find are to your advantage, but by your own choice are now powerless to prevent.

Such as?

 

[oldgroaner]

TREX, you focus on whatever is perceived to be the current and fashionable bad news story for BREXIT.

Before the votes were even cast, you quoted just about every poll going to illustrate that BREXIT was a lost cause and would be defeated.

Following the announcement of the result, we had constant Stock Market updates from you showing how much had been wiped off the value of shares. It was almost like a ticker-tape display. Now we see the Stock Market higher than pre-BREXIT.

Then we turned to the value of our currency and how it was crashing in value. The pound is currently at a higher value against the Euro than it was throughout 2013. The pound strengthened during the Greek debt crisis (2014 - 2015), which incidentally has not gone away, it has simply been fudged postponing the inevitable. Several other countries are stacking up to bring imminent difficulties on the Euro too, so I expect to see the pound strengthen. The pound is definitely currently down against the Dollar, which is to be expected given the temporary uncertainty we have.

Now the latest trendy topic of doom is the Current Account. This one has only surfaced into the news during recent days. I bet no one had heard of it a month ago.

I'm sure that if we can muster the collective will of the country, all talk negatively and try really hard, we will be able to bring on the much yearned for recession. Then, people will be able to sit back, contented, and say, I told you so.

BREXIT has been a shock. No one was really expecting it except BREXIT voters, there is bound to be temporary instability. We have no government or opposition at the moment giving more uncertainty, this is not fertile ground. However, things will settle, order will be restored, the goodness will start to flow again!

No one really expected it? be fair tillson I forecast a victory for Brexit did I not? how many previous posts do i have to dig up and cut and paste to prove that?
let me correct your remark for you
"BREXIT has been a shock. No one was really expecting it including BREXIT voters, and one old fool on here that no one takes seriously anyway

Smilie please Brendan it has to deserve one, surely?

 

[trex]

TREX, you focus on whatever is perceived to be the current and fashionable bad news story for BREXIT.

Before the votes were even cast, you quoted just about every poll going to illustrate that BREXIT was a lost cause and would be defeated.

I posted about the current account on June 11, why brexit would cause a worsening of the current account, leading to inflation and reduction in imports.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/brexit-for-once-some-facts.24369/page-21#post-310632

Stock market will go up and down because it responds early to announcement of stimulus, the value of the Pound will take a lot longer to recover.
brexit is damaging the economy. A weaker Pound is pushing up inflation. These things are the consensus opinion. You can dismiss and ignore them, but the poor won't be able to.

 

[oldgroaner]

Ha ha ha. The words decide and EU should never appear in the same sentence, especially in a military context!



Very good to excellent.

This is where nuclear weapons play their part and why they have possibly saved millions of lives. Everyone knows that conflict will end in total destruction and annihilation if we go down the armed conflict path. So that isn't going to happen.



Such as?

tillson you are obviously in a "National Suicide" Frame of mind over Trident.
in 1939 we had equally deadly weapons in the form of Anthrax smallpox and Botulinum Toxin and preferred to accept the notion of fighting to the death by conventional means that deploying them.
They are simply the worst possible idea deranged mind could come up with, so much so that even Hitler himself was against their use.
National suicide is not a strategy to be employed unless you suffer from an insane Kamikaze notion of reality.
Are all of the ideas of the leave faction as lunatic as that one?
We no longer can afford "Willy waving" by threatening anyone with Trident unless we want to end up like North Korea.

 

[tillson]

tillson you are obviously in a "National Suicide" Frame of mind over Trident.
in 1939 we had equally deadly weapons in the form of Anthrax smallpox and Botulinum Toxin and preferred to accept the notion of fighting to the death by conventional means that deploying them.
They are simply the worst possible idea deranged mind could come up with, so much so that even Hitler himself was against their use.
National suicide is not a strategy to be employed unless you suffer from an insane Kamikaze notion of reality.
Are all of the ideas of the leave faction as lunatic as that one?
We no longer can afford "Willy waving" by threatening anyone with Trident unless we want to end up like North Korea.

There would have been more wars, more loss of life and more misery were it not for the stale mate created by nuclear weapons. Each power in possession of such devices knowing that they can't use them or attack another country in possession of them without bringing about their own destruction.

I don't know about you, but I see this as a preferable situation to one of multiple skirmishes with massive loss of life and suffering.

 

[oldgroaner]

There would have been more wars, more loss of life and more misery were it not for the stale mate created by nuclear weapons. Each power in possession of such devices knowing that they can't use them or attack another country in possession of them without bringing about their own destruction.

I don't know about you, but I see this as a preferable situation to one of multiple skirmishes with massive loss of life and suffering.

Haven't you noticed the major powers have simply carried on waging proxy wars as sponsors in the middle east and your "preferable solution" has simply created a world where millions of people's lives are still being destroyed by conventional wars,many of which have been at the hands of our own politicians, even at times without bothering to get parliamentary approval.
As I pointed out Nuclear Weapons are only one type of Weapon of Mass destruction, the others have never been used as a so called MAD deterrent, that's all, for the simple reason no one is foolish enough to believe they will be used, that's intended to fool the public into feeling protected.
Nuclear weapons didn't prevent Korea or Vietnam did they? nor have they prevented a major war, there simply was no reason to have one on the doorstep.
Ask yourself if they are so effective, why did the Russians and Americans amass such huge conventional forces? if MAD works they make no sense.
The Russians haven't attacked us because we are not of sufficient interest to them, therefore I concede this point
Brexit has reduced the threat level we pose to Russia as we are now reduced in potency as a political international power and can be ignored.
Happy Now?

 

[tillson]

Haven't you noticed the major powers have simply carried on waging proxy wars as sponsors in the middle east and your "preferable solution" has simply created a world where millions of people's lives are still being destroyed by conventional wars,many of which have been at the hands of our own politicians, even at times without bothering to get parliamentary approval.
As I pointed out Nuclear Weapons are only one type of Weapon of Mass destruction, the others have never been used as a so called MAD deterrent, that's all, for the simple reason no one is foolish enough to believe they will be used, that's intended to fool the public into feeling protected.
Nuclear weapons didn't prevent Korea or Vietnam did they? nor have they prevented a major war, there simply was no reason to have one on the doorstep.
Ask yourself if they are so effective, why did the Russians and Americans amass such huge conventional forces? if MAD works they make no sense.
The Russians haven't attacked us because we are not of sufficient interest to them, therefore I concede this point
Brexit has reduced the threat level we pose to Russia as we are now reduced in potency as a political international power and can be ignored.
Happy Now?

I'm always happy, there is no question about that. If you meant to ask if I agree with you, then the answer is no.

Nuclear weapons exist or can be produced, that can't be reversed. Therefore we must have them as the weapon of last resort.

Would you want to live in a world where say only an ISIS controlled state had a nuclear capability? Actually, I didn't need to ask that question because your answer will undoubtable be yes, because it would be harmful to Britain.

 

[oldgroaner]

I'm always happy, there is no question about that. If you meant to ask if I agree with you, then the answer is no.

Nuclear weapons exist or can be produced, that can't be reversed. Therefore we must have them as the weapon of last resort.

Would you want to live in a world where say only an ISIS controlled state had a nuclear capability? Actually, I didn't need to ask that question because your answer will undoubtable be yes, because it would be harmful to Britain.

We do it's called north Korea and I would remind you it was your vote that is harming the country not mine

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[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Trex
A weak pound is not an indicator of recession. Fact.
HSBC and Barclays no intention ( whatever happens) of leaving UK.

Many are now saying Osbourne should go for causing chaos and doing country down, both of which he,s still doing. ..he,s done way more damage than Brexit. Fact.

Trex knows nothing about economics,a point he,s gone to great lengths to prove.

Flecc cant decide if he,s a stock market entrepreneur or a working man.

OG could start an argument and keep it going for a year in an empty room. He knows less than trex. All facts.

 

[flecc]

Flecc cant decide if he,s a stock market entrepreneur or a working man.

Quite a response, lashing out wildly at everyone you don't agree with.

I'm neither a stock market entrepeneur or a working man, I've been retired for decades. I was long ago a working man who was decisive and wise enough to grow his surplus earnings and investment income. It was hardly difficult, given the chumps running the economy for decades. Huge interest rates available for many years and burgeoning property prices made it almost difficult to avoid growing money if one had any sense, rather than squandering money as so many did.
.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Trex
A weak pound is not an indicator of recession. Fact.
HSBC and Barclays no intention ( whatever happens) of leaving UK.

Many are now saying Osbourne should go for causing chaos and doing country down, both of which he,s still doing. ..he,s done way more damage than Brexit. Fact.

Trex knows nothing about economics,a point he,s gone to great lengths to prove.

Flecc cant decide if he,s a stock market entrepreneur or a working man.

OG could start an argument and keep it going for a year in an empty room. He knows less than trex. All facts.

ok, so you're picking holes in people, wanna have a go at this guy? I can't find any reason to disagree with anything he's saying.

 

[BrendanJ]

ok, so you're picking holes in people, wanna have a go at this guy? I can't find any reason to disagree with anything he's saying.

Um, started to listen, then he kicked off with how he was going to spend the next 20 mins explaining why the leave campaign was so dishonest, doesn't exactly give me impression I am going to hear a balanced economics lesson. So decided to give it a miss
The problem is from top to bottom every one has taken strident opposite views on the referendum, their appears very few people prepared to discuss in a balanced way. Maybe we should revisit in 3 months when we have all calmed down
Have to say though it's great for involving the population in politics, I dare say it will never be the same again

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

....and there we go with the problem with this whole debate.. You were asked to vote on something you didn't know about and didn't want to learn about.

You should listen, because its not about economics, because that is always guess work, its about law, and facts and things that can't be argued.

I had the same debate with 3 guys in the pub last night. They were flat out in Cavour of leaving, and every single one of their reasons was total and utter nonsense, that I could prove factually was the case. No scaremongering no guessing, just facts.

If an independent professional expert wants to give you some free advise and explain why "Legally" the referendum was fought on lies, and you can't be bothered to listen because you think you know better, then I'm sorry to be blunt, but you shouldn't have voted.

 

[derf]

Um, started to listen, then he kicked off with how he was going to spend the next 20 mins explaining why the leave campaign was so dishonest, doesn't exactly give me impression I am going to hear a balanced economics lesson. So decided to give it a miss
The problem is from top to bottom every one has taken strident opposite views on the referendum, their appears very few people prepared to discuss in a balanced way. Maybe we should revisit in 3 months when we have all calmed down
Have to say though it's great for involving the population in politics, I dare say it will never be the same again

To a degree I guess I agree with the increased interest in politics. However, there is a difference between, say, taking an increased interest in ones health (perhaps taking up running) and blowing off ones head with a shotgun before running around like a headless chicken looking for an a&e

 

[BrendanJ]

....and there we go with the problem with this whole debate.. You were asked to vote on something you didn't know about and didn't want to learn about.

You should listen, because its not about economics, because that is always guess work, its about law, and facts and things that can't be argued.

I had the same debate with 3 guys in the pub last night. They were flat out in Cavour of leaving, and every single one of their reasons was total and utter nonsense, that I could prove factually was the case. No scaremongering no guessing, just facts.

If an independent professional expert wants to give you some free advise and explain why "Legally" the referendum was fought on lies, and you can't be bothered to listen because you think you know better, then I'm sorry to be blunt, but you shouldn't have voted.

No surprise I disagree with you on this, I really do know a considerable amount about these issues, I read widely and surprise surprise, I keep an eye out for obvious propaganda,
Don't try to pretend you don't do the same
Interesting you have already been arguing with 3 other persons and quite proud to state you are right, they know nothing and are ignoramouses
Me included
The moral high ground doesn't deserve you, and for once just admit you are on one side of the argument and not the honest broker
The problem with some of you remainers is you are in denial about the result and are still trying to win the arguement

 

[BrendanJ]

To a degree I guess I agree with the increased interest in politics. However, there is a difference between, say, taking an increased interest in ones health (perhaps taking up running) and blowing off ones head with a shotgun before running around like a headless chicken looking for an a&e

Uh! How strange!

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

No surprise I disagree with you on this, I really do know a considerable amount about these issues, I read widely and surprise surprise, I keep an eye out for obvious propaganda,
Don't try to pretend you don't do the same
Interesting you have already been arguing with 3 other persons and quite proud to state you are right, they know nothing and are ignoramouses
Me included
The moral high ground doesn't deserve you, and for once just admit you are on one side of the argument and not the honest broker
The problem with some of you remainers is you are in denial about the result and are still trying to win the arguement

I'm not suggesting you agree with me, I'm not arrogant enough to suggest I know everything.

What I am saying is watch the video and then explain to me if you think he is wrong. Don't just say, I can't be bothered to watch because his statements of fact don't tie in with my opinion.

Please watch it and then pick anything he's said and explain to me why you think he's wrong.

 

[oldgroaner]

Trex
A weak pound is not an indicator of recession. Fact.
HSBC and Barclays no intention ( whatever happens) of leaving UK.

Many are now saying Osbourne should go for causing chaos and doing country down, both of which he,s still doing. ..he,s done way more damage than Brexit. Fact.

Trex knows nothing about economics,a point he,s gone to great lengths to prove.

Flecc cant decide if he,s a stock market entrepreneur or a working man.

OG could start an argument and keep it going for a year in an empty room. He knows less than trex. All facts.

Morning Flud, so nice of you to Compliment me as a casual aside, how's your "bright new world, "coming along? Have they managed to pick some fool to take the blame as leader yet?
I nominate you, all the right qualifications or so you tell us.
Go on do your duty to the fatherland.
Volunteer, you deserve a chance to take the credit don't you?
Or have you realised that it's hard to soar like an eagle when you work among turkeys?

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[oldgroaner]

No one really expected it? be fair tillson I forecast a victory for Brexit did I not? how many previous posts do i have to dig up and cut and paste to prove that?
let me correct your remark for you
"BREXIT has been a shock. No one was really expecting it including BREXIT voters, and one old fool on here that no one takes seriously anyway

Smilie please Brendan it has to deserve one, surely?

Strange that tillson hasn't confirmed I was right yet don't you think[emoji1]


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[trex]

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