Brexit, for once some facts.

[Gubbins]

Nice to see an unbiased view of Brexit, though the notion that leaving the EU to risk the future of the next generation is anything other than Juvenile is rather hard to grasp.
In the strange inverted world of the Brexiter of course, a fanatical belief has replaced pragmatic logic, so here is a reminder.

1. The Referendum was given as a Ploy to quell a rebellious faction in the Tory ranks that it feared were going to defect to UKIP
2. It was Advisory only, a fact carefully glossed over by Davis the author. or the Public would not have bothered to vote.
3. All promises proved to be lies, including Cameron's to send Article 50 in the very next week and Boris's £350 Million Pounds Gaff
4. Since then there has been no plan, and there still isn't the Polician's planning horizon hits a Brick wall on Brexit day and they haven't a clue what to do next, or the means to do it
5. Since t Negotiations started with the EU they have got nowhere.
6. After a hard Brexit we will still have the same clowns in both Labour and the Tory party playing silly party politics games and failing to run the country properly
7. The laws, welfare, and civil rights will be hacked to pieces, because "The will of the people wanted Brexit" and to make it happen sacrifices have to be made.
8. The country cannot be described as capable of making a living with the industry and infrastructure that it has or is likely to get within many years, but since most of it is Foreign owned already Politicians have no say, have they? we are at the real owner's mercy
9. Let's face it we are now faced with living on Charity from the EU and the Foreign owners of our infrastructure and Industry

The truth is this farce will prove extremely damaging and rather than make smug and silly remarks about "remain grumblers" you would do better to emigrate to a more advanced country rather than the shambles that this one is about to become, just as it was before, when through desperation we sought to enter the common market, and it saved the day.

Think on this. It took three attempts before they let us in and it saved us.
Do you imagine for a moment they will welcome us back again to act in the idiotic fashion we are doing now?

Remain grumblers remind you of a child do they? good grief, is that the best you can do after so many people made such a hugely disastrous mistake as to vote for Brexit, where the only supporting evidence to do so was a pack of lies and broken promises that wouldn't convince a ten year old child?
That is really rather sad.

Cor i bet that took some typing.. or did you cut and paste? Just s thought but if I voted brexit to keep Britain British why would I want to emigrate? And as to all your other points.. honestly! I havnt the faintest idea....

 

[Danidl]

17,410,742 voted to Leave,

So over 8.5 million people in the UK who voted are somehow sub-normal, below average intelligence?

So there you have it, an Irish guy telling the British half of them are thick!

Not your finest hour Dan, now was it?

Yes of course thank you for pointing it out, how was I to know, .. degree in mathematics notwithstanding, , how stupid of me to believe that whatever the average is , 50% will be above it and 50% below it. Only in a Brexit controlled universe is it different.
You can take comfort in the belief that you were one of the above average intelligence persons, provided you also accept that there was someone else who was of below average intelligence.
Now there are a variety of statistical analysis tools, but when one is dealing with large populations, they tend towards the standard Gaussian distribution curve, and believe me, a population of 18 million or 17 million these would be viewed as large populations. The average becomes defined as the peak of that curve, ..
In the case of human intelligence, the term sub normal would not tend to be used for persons within say 2 standard deviations below the average , but to those who are incapable of a number of tasks....

 

[Danidl]

That's blatant unfounded uninformed prejudice. Just the unthinking brexit was based on. I know a Syrian surgeon who's wife and child drowned on a med crossing working in an A&E in Malta because it was his first port of call and EU regulation specify one should seek asylum there. We have a dire shortage of A&E consultants in UK. Frankly, with this kind of xenophobic prejudice we deserve this and the state our healthcare is in.

I am not sure that that was the actual point the poster was making. I read it as , if immigrants come in and no attempt is made to integrate them into the host society, the same pressures , and oppressions they were fleeing from will re emerge. The same bullies, tyrants, gangsters who thrived in their home state will again dominate. Gettos can form...

 

[tommie]

All very well, but how are you, or me for that fact, to know 99% of those voting Leave aren`t highly intelligent individuals and 1% are as you put it `below average intelligence`? But you claim 50% are `below average intelligence`. How do you know??
Doesn`t it strike you as a tad condescending and offensive to those that voted??

 

[Danidl]

All very well, but how are you, or me for that fact, to know 99% of those voting Leave aren`t highly intelligent individuals and 1% are as you put it `below average intelligence`? But you claim 50% are `below average intelligence`. How do you know??
Doesn`t it strike you as a tad condescending and offensive to those that voted??

Statistics dear boy statistics. .. since 36 million voted and roughly 50% went either way, 52\ 48, it stands to reason that both populations had equal ratios of average, above average and below average.
And no it does not strike me as being condescending.
Other commentators have hinted that Brexit voters were from specific social classes and educational attainment, but I have not. It was I understand a secret ballot. What was undeniable was that regions which were economically less developed had greater pro Brexit majorities, because this evidence is in the constituancies returns.

 

[Steb]

I am not sure that that was the actual point the poster was making. I read it as , if immigrants come in and no attempt is made to integrate them into the host society, the same pressures , and oppressions they were fleeing from will re emerge. The same bullies, tyrants, gangsters who thrived in their home state will again dominate. Gettos can form...

Perhaps, however, London has the highest %immigrants in UK and it doesn't feel like a ghetto to me. During brexit a correlation was that areas with lowest levels of immigration were most likely to vote leave. Brexit relied heavily on scaremongering trumping facts, the truth.

 

[tommie]

it stands to reason that both populations had equal ratios of average, above average and below average.

Ah ha, thank-you, a little bit of back-tracking there,


so the guide lines apply to BOTH sets of voters not just those who voted to Leave as you originally indicated.

Good, thats cleared that one up then.

 

[Danidl]

Perhaps, however, London has the highest %immigrants in UK and it doesn't feel like a ghetto to me. During brexit a correlation was that areas with lowest levels of immigration were most likely to vote leave. Brexit relied heavily on scaremongering trumping facts, the truth.

Perhaps I did not develop my point sufficiently. I was thinking more of when central authorities put or force large numbers of immigrants together .without making attempts to integrate them into their society. My . thinking was of the banliues in Paris or that district in Belgium and even the gettoisation which occurred, by paramilitaries in Belfast 40 years ago. These schemes allow the same Godfathers or Mafia types to control their areas and the same deprivation which caused them to migrate, rears its head again.

 

[Steb]

All very well, but how are you, or me for that fact, to know 99% of those voting Leave aren`t highly intelligent individuals and 1% are as you put it `below average intelligence`? But you claim 50% are `below average intelligence`. How do you know??
Doesn`t it strike you as a tad condescending and offensive to those that voted??

For what it's worth, intelligence in the west is measured with something called a WAIS(wechsler adult intelligence scale), it has ten subtlest measuring performance and verbal iq. Most involve problem solving(other than those that measure working memory like digital span). Coinscidentally the brexit decision represents a test of problem solving - it required the abilitiy to analyse facts, manipulate abstract concepts(a bit like a subtlest known as block design on the WAIS). Arriving at a leave vote indicates an limited ability in both these, as shown by the arguments for leave on the last few pages of this thread.

 

[Danidl]

Ah ha, thank-you, a little bit of back-tracking there,


so the guide lines apply to BOTH sets of voters not just those who voted to Leave as you originally indicated.

Good, thats cleared that one up then.

.. read all my posts no backtracking, just a failure of comprehension on your part.

 

[Danidl]

What I really don't understand is how you know what will happen? The doom and gloom scenarios didn't happen as promised so those that know kept coming up with excuses just waiting for a downturn before saying I told you so

A
First Brexit has not yet happened, the talks have just started.
Second. Do you not think that there have been a number of ominous signs already
1. Sterling plunged against the euro.
2. Banks and financial services companies looking for premises in Europe
3. Reduction in the number of foreign applicants to UK universities... Previously a source of revenue
4. Unprecedented numbers of UK applications for irish passports
5. Ryanair promising to remove flights to UK
6. Increases in import costs of all raw materials
7. Reduction in the numbers of staff applying to NHS

And this is still at the talking stage. ...

 

[tommie]

For what it's worth, intelligence in the west is measured with something called a WAIS(wechsler adult intelligence scale), it has ten subtlest measuring performance and verbal iq. Most involve problem solving(other than those that measure working memory like digital span). Coinscidentally the brexit decision represents a test of problem solving - it required the abilitiy to analyse facts, manipulate abstract concepts(a bit like a subtlest known as block design on the WAIS). Arriving at a leave vote indicates an limited ability in both these, as shown by the arguments for leave on the last few pages of this thread.

Good! and that of course applies to BOTH sets of voters, now doesn`t it??!!

another one cleared up!

Oh, some good news for the Leave voters (both the Intelligent and of course those of the `below average intelligence` variety!)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/11/remain-voters-now-back-taking-control-borders-leaving-ecj-paying/

 

[Gubbins]

A
First Brexit has not yet happened, the talks have just started.
Second. Do you not think that there have been a number of ominous signs already
1. Sterling plunged against the euro.
2. Banks and financial services companies looking for premises in Europe
3. Reduction in the number of foreign applicants to UK universities... Previously a source of revenue
4. Unprecedented numbers of UK applications for irish passports
5. Ryanair promising to remove flights to UK
6. Increases in import costs of all raw materials
7. Reduction in the numbers of staff applying to NHS

And this is still at the talking stage. ...

Cool! And this is just the beginning. We are living through history in the making.

 

[Steb]

Good! and that of course applies to BOTH sets of voters, now doesn`t it??!!

another one cleared up!

Oh, some good news for the Leave voters (both the Intelligent and of course those of the `below average intelligence` variety!)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/11/remain-voters-now-back-taking-control-borders-leaving-ecj-paying/

Unfortunately the quality of your deductions rather underscorez the point I was making. Now if only leave voters mental acuity didn't have such a big influence on my future..

 

[tommie]

For what it's worth, intelligence in the west is measured with something called a WAIS(wechsler adult intelligence scale), it has ten subtlest measuring performance and verbal iq. Most involve problem solving(other than those that measure working memory like digital span). Coinscidentally the brexit decision represents a test of problem solving - it required the abilitiy to analyse facts, manipulate abstract concepts(a bit like a subtlest known as block design on the WAIS). Arriving at a leave vote indicates an limited ability in both these, as shown by the arguments for leave on the last few pages of this thread.

Thank-you for that Steb, i just corrected a couple of typos...

For what it's worth, intelligence in the west is measured with something called a WAIS(wechsler adult intelligence scale), it has ten subtlest measuring performance and verbal iq. Most involve problem solving(other than those that measure working memory like digital span). Coinscidentally the brexit decision represents a test of problem solving - it required the abilitiy to analyse facts, manipulate abstract concepts(a bit like a subtlest known as block design on the WAIS). Arriving at a Remain vote indicates an limited ability in both these, as shown by the arguments for Remain on the last few pages of this thread.

 

[Steb]

Thank-you for that Steb, i just corrected a couple of typos...

For what it's worth, intelligence in the west is measured with something called a WAIS(wechsler adult intelligence scale), it has ten subtlest measuring performance and verbal iq. Most involve problem solving(other than those that measure working memory like digital span). Coinscidentally the brexit decision represents a test of problem solving - it required the abilitiy to analyse facts, manipulate abstract concepts(a bit like a subtlest known as block design on the WAIS). Arriving at a Remain vote indicates an limited ability in both these, as shown by the arguments for Remain on the last few pages of this thread.

.. without understanding any of it, it's possible to not see the forest for the trees, much as you failed to do when you voted brexit

 

[Steb]

Thank-you for that Steb, i just corrected a couple of typos...

For what it's worth, intelligence in the west is measured with something called a WAIS(wechsler adult intelligence scale), it has ten subtlest measuring performance and verbal iq. Most involve problem solving(other than those that measure working memory like digital span). Coinscidentally the brexit decision represents a test of problem solving - it required the abilitiy to analyse facts, manipulate abstract concepts(a bit like a subtlest known as block design on the WAIS). Arriving at a Remain vote indicates an limited ability in both these, as shown by the arguments for Remain on the last few pages of this thread.

The value of the pound represents the dispassionate odds investors (who really do know how to analyse) put on whether brexit was an intelligent decision. Everything isn't entirely as interchangeable in reality as in say gove or Boris fantasies

 

[Kudoscycles]

What I really don't understand is how you know what will happen? The doom and gloom scenarios didn't happen as promised so those that know kept coming up with excuses just waiting for a downturn before saying I told you so

My business is part of an industry which is a world leader and currently booming,due primarily to the weakness of the £ v the Euro. I live in the south east which makes the lionshare of the wealth of our country and pays the lionshare of the taxes. The city of London and all the associated agencies is a world leader of world finance,paying massive sums into the exchequer,the jewel in the crown of our country.
Yet we are prepared to risk everything just because half a dozen guys who took time away from their Blackpool soup kitchen voted Brexit.
We were such a respected country on the world stage but we are now viewed as idiots led by idiots.
I tell you what will happen...we will stumble along for the next 18 months,panicking at the end desperate to get some sort of deal....if we crash out,which looks likely, the EU will draw a line down the middle of the English Channel and look at the UK as a satellite of China,putting all the China to EU tariffs between the UK and EU,that will make our exports into the EU very expensive,we will be desperate to regain what little trade we can salvage and return to the EU on much less favourable terms.
Or,we will get sensible,go down on our hands and knees to the EU and ask for forgiveness,they will let us back but without Maggies rebate and cost us Euro 4 billion per year.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

That may be unusual by today's standards but not when I was young . I did that for 40 years.. 12 hour shifts days and nights. Job I hated.. no sick pay so no work no money.. but had to do it. We all had to do it.. that's how we ended up earning a pension.

But you surely don't want us all to have a voyage to the bottom,to destroy the good parts of our country just because its not enjoyed by all. I can understand resentment against the wealthy south but I cannot understand how Brexit is going to achieve a realignment of wealth.
My son gets no paid holiday,no sick pay but his job pays very well so he takes a view on the overall package.
KudosDave

 

[Danidl]

Cool! And this is just the beginning. We are living through history in the making.

.. we are always living through history.