Brexit, for once some facts.

[Steb]

I think the recruitment situation in the NHS has more to do with tories policy than just supply and demand. You have well trained staff leaving in droves to work for agencies because the pay is better while the agencies make a fortune out of supplying the same staff at twice the cost that the NHS used to spend retaining the same staff in the first place.

It's the value of the pound. Once it reaches parity, there's little reason to work here. The NHS used to be a place that offered opportunities for clinical, professional development not available elsewhere. But that's history. Now you're theory of us training up locals would have held if we didn't have our bell shaped demographic. Sadly we do (and it probably explains why manufacturing isn't and won't take off).

 

[Woosh]

It's the value of the pound. Once it reaches parity, there's little reason to work here. The NHS used to be a place that offered opportunities for clinical, professional development not available elsewhere. But that's history. Now you're theory of us training up locals would have held if we didn't have our bell shaped demographic. Sadly we do (and it probably explains why manufacturing isn't and won't take off).

I blame many of our problems on house price inflation.
Why would you want to go to work when the house earns more money than you?

 

[Steb]

I think the recruitment situation in the NHS has more to do with tories policy than just supply and demand. You have well trained staff leaving in droves to work for agencies because the pay is better while the agencies make a fortune out of supplying the same staff at twice the cost that the NHS used to spend retaining the same staff in the first place.

Also, who does a populist referendum based on lies about 'foregners' hand power too? Not just politically - culturally, psychologically as public discourse become narrower and narrower minded with baboons like Boris or professional liars like gove ever more at the helm. The tories and their corporate friends.

 

[Steb]

I blame many of our problems on house price inflation.
Why would you want to go to work when the house earns more money than you?

Perhaps and that's complex and gordon browns raid on pension funds has much to answer for(investors piled into property, prices went up). But essentially we've had tories and neo tories since before first Iraq war. That's the problem. Brexit is them finally cementing their position, having captured the state. Brexit was in that sense a long time coming. House price inflation in UK, certainly, isn't the eu's doing

 

[Gubbins]

Also, who does a populist referendum based on lies about 'foregners' hand power too? Not just politically - culturally, psychologically as public discourse become narrower and narrower minded with baboons like Boris or professional liars like gove ever more at the helm. The tories and their corporate friends.

I am finding it interesting that people single out lying politicians based on their own brexit preference. Is it the case that all politicians who championed brexit are liars and those for remain told the truth? Or is it only Boris and Gove that have lied?

 

[Steb]

I am finding it interesting that people single out lying politicians based on their own brexit preference. Is it the case that all politicians who championed brexit are liars and those for remain told the truth? Or is it only Boris and Gove that have lied?

All lie, which is why you should do due diligence, so you can choose your preferred liar (of the moment). No one should ever Base political decisions mainly on what any politician uttered. My preferred liar, for now, is Corbyn (to a point)

 

[Gubbins]

All lie, which is why you should do due diligence, so you can choose your preferred liar (of the moment). No one should ever Base political decisions mainly on what any politician uttered. My preferred liar, for now, is Corbyn (to a point)

Ah yes. The refunding tuition fees was excellently done.

 

[Danidl]

Are they? All I see is nothing much has changed. I am at our local hospital most days and I see all those exceptional foreign nurses and doctors, non of whome seem in a hurry to leave or feel that they are not wanted.
What I do see on police documentaries are all the foreign criminals outnumbering the home grown ones..
I see all these reported incidents in other countries with the authorities trying to play it down.
No idea what euratom is !
My small business has never been as busy, especially international sales.
Whenever this debate is raised the leave supporters soon seem to become aggressive and superior when I won't agree that I am wrong. In fact one such person told me I was the first person they knew who have dared to admit voting leave!
It was my life experience that steered my vote and when I saw Mr Cameron say that pensioners could loose £500 per month that sealed it. I only get £520 per month!

If your companies international sales are now very high that is because the pound sterling has dropped in value. I don't know what line of business you are in , but if your income is just 140 pounds per week, perhaps you should consider another. Moreover if that business involves importing raw materials, it is in for a shock when it wants to take in more stock.
You are likely to see reductions in the staffing levels in your hospital, the figures of non UK people taking up positions is reducing. People are employed on rotation and contracts and as these end, people will leave. British and Irish nurses and other medical staff find Australia a very pleasant location.
It might be useful to read up on the Euratom threaties.

 

[Danidl]

One of the east European highly trained specialist nurses that is dealing with my problem announced that she was leaving and I thought here comes brexit... so I asked why she was going home.. She replied with never going home, just moving to London to be nearer my child's father who works there.

.. I do assume you meant to say her childs father, otherwise it's a bit tangled. Just to be clear as an EU citizen, she is currently legally entitled to work in any of the member states. There is no agreement yet what her status would be post Brexit.

 

[Gubbins]

.. I do assume you meant to say her childs father, otherwise it's a bit tangled. Just to be clear as an EU citizen, she is currently legally entitled to work in any of the member states. There is no agreement yet what her status would be post Brexit.

sorry, was a quote.. She said my child.. her words.. lol

 

[Danidl]

I am finding it interesting that people single out lying politicians based on their own brexit preference. Is it the case that all politicians who championed brexit are liars and those for remain told the truth? Or is it only Boris and Gove that have lied?

That's a fair point. All politicians gild the lily , and suggest that if you follow their path, it's to a brighter tomorrow.... What was striking in respect of the referendum was the existence of that lovely red bus with the text about giving 350 million to the NHS.
It has been stated by the probrexit camp that it was very successful in their campaign, and they attribute their success to it.
Within two days of the referendum these very people were distancing themselves from it , claiming that they could not that they would.
My definition of a lie is an untruth intended to decieve. So in my book that was a lie.
Can you identify any such clear lie from the remaining camp?

 

[Gubbins]

If your companies international sales are now very high that is because the pound sterling has dropped in value. I don't know what line of business you are in , but if your income is just 140 pounds per week, perhaps you should consider another. Moreover if that business involves importing raw materials, it is in for a shock when it wants to take in more stock.
You are likely to see reductions in the staffing levels in your hospital, the figures of non UK people taking up positions is reducing. People are employed on rotation and contracts and as these end, people will leave. British and Irish nurses and other medical staff find Australia a very pleasant location.
It might be useful to read up on the Euratom threaties.

TBH I dont understand half the jingo so dont bother with such things. And business wise we are closing down any way so its no longer important. Ah, the 140 per week. That is my private final salary gold plated pension for 35 years of hard labour (obviously not public sector).. Not grumbling about it, its just that Dave's throw away comment showed me just how much he knew or cared about me and the millions like me who put him where he is, or was, and then ousted him by not following the plan.

 

[Gubbins]

That's a fair point. All politicians gild the lily , and suggest that if you follow their path, it's to a brighter tomorrow.... What was striking in respect of the referendum was the existence of that lovely red bus with the text about giving 350 million to the NHS.
It has been stated by the probrexit camp that it was very successful in their campaign, and they attribute their success to it.
Within two days of the referendum these very people were distancing themselves from it , claiming that they could not that they would.
My definition of a lie is an untruth intended to decieve. So in my book that was a lie.
Can you identify any such clear lie from the remaining camp?

The Daily mail has printed a few, just dont recall them.

 

[oldgroaner]

Again you are misreading my post to fit in with your own ideas. I did not mention nhs recruitment at all.. just saying what I see myself and what the doctors and nurses that work at my hospital tell me.

For your information Cameron NEVER made the statement you alleged he did of Pensions being reduced by £500

What he said was this
"David Cameron has warned that pledges to raise state pensions every year and ringfence spending for the NHS may have to be ditched in a brutal new phase of austerity if the country votes for Brexit.

And out of curiosity , why would the Doctors and Nurses at "Your Hospital" discuss their situation with you?

 

[oldgroaner]

TBH I dont understand half the jingo so dont bother with such things. And business wise we are closing down any way so its no longer important. Ah, the 140 per week. That is my private final salary gold plated pension for 35 years of hard labour (obviously not public sector).. Not grumbling about it, its just that Dave's throw away comment showed me just how much he knew or cared about me and the millions like me who put him where he is, or was, and then ousted him by not following the plan.

Hang on a minute previously this was 40 years of hard labour..
Not only that you also stated this
"My small business has never been as busy, especially international sales."
And now we find
"And business wise we are closing down any way so its no longer important."
perhaps because you are retiring? so why isn't it for sale if it is busy ?

.do try to be consistent when you come on here, as people notice when you are not.

 

[Gubbins]

Hang on a minute previously this was 40 years of hard labour..
Not only that you also stated this
"My small business has never been as busy, especially international sales."
And now we find
"And business wise we are closing down any way so its no longer important."

.do try to be consistent when you come on here, as people notice when you are not.

ah sorry about that.. didnt want to give too much detail on an open forum. I left school at 16 with no qualifications and retired at 59 and in that time I have never been out of work and have had less than 10 days off sick! So its actually more than 40 years... seemed like more as well.
I worked for one company for the last 35 years of my working life and earned the pension as mentioned.. About 8 years ago I spotted a need for a niche product and as we (my wife and I) had the skills to design and make this inexpensive item we did just that at home and then sold them on eBay. We have sold over 10,000 of these now much copied items but due to ill health we are having to stop. So the two things are separate.. I did say small business, and my eBay store is registered as a business..Sorry for any confusion here but really? addressing my points by trying to trip me up? If this is how you work out your brexit arguments I can see why you seem upset by the result..
Drawing conclusions from too little data..

 

[oldgroaner]

addressing my points by trying to trip me up? If this is how you work out your brexit arguments I can see why you seem upset by the result..
Drawing conclusions from too little data..

Not so , as you trip yourself up without help from outsiders, but I note you have glossed over the fact that Cameron never made the statement you said he did, and attempted to dissemble
That claim was in fact my main query,and out of curiosity this is something I haven't seen before
"
Pedelecs - Electric Bike Community - Error
This member limits who may view their full profile."
How odd!

As to this
"Drawing conclusions from too little data.."
But you did, by your own admission, and Voted for Brexit, any idea why?
You surely saw some advantage in doing so, or was it simply your earlier remark
" I voted brexit to keep Britain British"?
Was this regardless of cost or loss of civil rights for everyone?

 

[Gubbins]

Not so , as you trip yourself up without help from outsiders, but I note you have glossed over the fact that Cameron never made the statement you said he did, and attempted to dissemble
That claim was in fact my main query,and out of curiosity this is something I haven't seen before
"
Pedelecs - Electric Bike Community - Error
This member limits who may view their full profile."
How odd!

As to this
"Drawing conclusions from too little data.."
But you did, by your own admission, and Voted for Brexit, any idea why?

 

[Gubbins]

4 hooded youths stole my bike which had my phone on board with all the information that these things contain, and the police advised me on on line security so I try to keep all my personal data as private as possible now. Perhaps

 

[oldgroaner]

Dave's throw away comment showed me just how much he knew or cared about me and the millions like me who put him where he is, or was, and then ousted him by not following the plan.

Now that I can believe as a Valid reason, but not really a choice that will give the desired result, as we still have them in Government