.. fair play to you Woosh, you have been consistent. Those reasons have been articulated, again and again, but equally the EU does not want to be dictated to by the UK, and insists that if it wants to play in the same league it must use the same ball, use the same goalposts, and use the same number of players, and with the ECJ acting as ref.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Typical windstrength for wind turbine operation
Minimum working wind needed ..8mph
Optimum is 30 mph
Max is 50 mph, at which they are feathered / shut down.
As wind energy increases to speed off its movement squared.( ie double wind, you can create 4 x energy, its easy to see at 8mph they are only just providing electricity..)
Worthwhile production kicks in at 13 mph. ( that's about wind needed for a windsurfer to plane, and for yachts/ dinghies to be fun)
No where in UK has an average wind speed over 13mph. ( median) The mean average is distorted by the days when the things have to be shut down. ( 50 mph on Monday and 10 rest of week , will give a good average wind but turbine would not have been producing all week)
When you next drive past a wind farm,check wind and see if they are rotating,chances are in UK they will not be)
Look up some average wind speeds for around uk..I,ve spent last 35 years searching for wind.
The mis information is from the advocates, looking for grants to build them...
In years to come they will be another symbol of how people can be misled, along with Hybrid cars.
The only people benefitting from them are farmers whose land they are built on and Siemens..supplying them.
Imagine having to rely on one in your garden , you could only boil kettle on 13 mph plus days.
Any sailor will tell you, wind in UK is like a fickle old man. Might not turn up when expected, gets up late and goes to bed early, but occasionally turns up full of energy.
Planning our energy requirements around it is ludicrous.
Minimum working wind needed ..8mph
Optimum is 30 mph
Max is 50 mph, at which they are feathered / shut down.
As wind energy increases to speed off its movement squared.( ie double wind, you can create 4 x energy, its easy to see at 8mph they are only just providing electricity..)
Worthwhile production kicks in at 13 mph. ( that's about wind needed for a windsurfer to plane, and for yachts/ dinghies to be fun)
No where in UK has an average wind speed over 13mph. ( median) The mean average is distorted by the days when the things have to be shut down. ( 50 mph on Monday and 10 rest of week , will give a good average wind but turbine would not have been producing all week)
When you next drive past a wind farm,check wind and see if they are rotating,chances are in UK they will not be)
Look up some average wind speeds for around uk..I,ve spent last 35 years searching for wind.
The mis information is from the advocates, looking for grants to build them...
In years to come they will be another symbol of how people can be misled, along with Hybrid cars.
The only people benefitting from them are farmers whose land they are built on and Siemens..supplying them.
Imagine having to rely on one in your garden , you could only boil kettle on 13 mph plus days.
Any sailor will tell you, wind in UK is like a fickle old man. Might not turn up when expected, gets up late and goes to bed early, but occasionally turns up full of energy.
Planning our energy requirements around it is ludicrous.
Last edited:
It's a tradition to eat beans every Tuesday teatime here, I can guarantee that the wind speed later that evening exceeds 13mph.
.. sorry Zatlan, but this is a topic you obviously are not well versed in.
Engineers would tend to use metres per second as the measure of wind speed.
The power of the wind increases by the cube of the wind speed
The wind resource is significantly higher at 100 m above sea level than at the levels you sail at.
Engineers will do site surveys by taking wind speed measurements over a year or more before calculating the appropriate annualised energy yield. And these will produce accurate figures and provide pointers for the optimal aerofoil blade sections.
Wind power, unlike solar is a technology which scales well, .. a solar area of twice the area captures twice the energy. IN wind it captures 4 times . in wind big is better...and a better use of materials
The comments about unreliability in turbines with gearboxes failing etc.. yes this happens, Earlier machines used inappropriate gearboxes, probably designed for locomotives, and not suited to the transient fluctuations in power. ..
but there is a trend, particularly for the offshore 3 to 5 megawatt peak power units, to go for gearbox free units ... Just like a very very large direct drive hub motor , and use electronics to condition the output voltage.
Your comment about wind and sailing is interesting, but I doubt that the sailors who have used it for some 3000 years would agree with your fair weather sailing analysis.
Almost every dire prediction about wind has been proven wrong.. that it would destabilise the grid, that it could not compete with fossil fuel burning, that it could not sustain a national baseload..
Last edited:
Doesn't Orkney generate more electricity than it uses and sends the surplace to the mainland?
Most of the cars there are now electric. If it can work for them why not for us?
Most of the cars there are now electric. If it can work for them why not for us?
From the Sun this Morning
!
new car fallout
Michael Gove’s radical plan unravels as experts warn it will cost UK trillions to switch to electric cars by 2040
The Environment Secretary came under fire as it was claimed Britain will need TEN new nuclear power stations - while Tory MPs branded White Van Taxes for diesel drivers 'morally wrong'
I can't help but think this is going to turn into a Pro Brexit red Herring when the Tory's decide to do the "Patriotic" thing and drop the idea as it originated abroad.
Great for diverting attention from Brexit though, from their point of view.
!
new car fallout
Michael Gove’s radical plan unravels as experts warn it will cost UK trillions to switch to electric cars by 2040
The Environment Secretary came under fire as it was claimed Britain will need TEN new nuclear power stations - while Tory MPs branded White Van Taxes for diesel drivers 'morally wrong'
I can't help but think this is going to turn into a Pro Brexit red Herring when the Tory's decide to do the "Patriotic" thing and drop the idea as it originated abroad.
Great for diverting attention from Brexit though, from their point of view.
And how long do you think you are going to manage living in the past (lovely song!) while the rest of Europe steams off into a cleaner, greener, brighter future?
Do I remember a time when England had clever men inventing stuff and innovating or was that just a figment of my imagination? Must have been a long time ago because they ain't like that now!
Do I remember a time when England had clever men inventing stuff and innovating or was that just a figment of my imagination? Must have been a long time ago because they ain't like that now!
There are lies, Damned lies and Statistics yesteday I reported this
"The statistics say "The toxic fumes are estimated to cause 23,500 early deaths a year and the problem was declared a public health emergency by a cross-party committee last year.
Today in the "Sun" (The fount of Truth and Wisdom)
"The chairwoman of the parliamentary Environmental Audit Committee, Labour’s Mary Creagh, said: “Air pollution causes 40,000 early deaths every year in the UK,"
With any luck some of us will survive the weekend if this goes on!
"The statistics say "The toxic fumes are estimated to cause 23,500 early deaths a year and the problem was declared a public health emergency by a cross-party committee last year.
Today in the "Sun" (The fount of Truth and Wisdom)
"The chairwoman of the parliamentary Environmental Audit Committee, Labour’s Mary Creagh, said: “Air pollution causes 40,000 early deaths every year in the UK,"
With any luck some of us will survive the weekend if this goes on!
The Conservatives have a cunning Environmental Plan
Plebs won't be able to afford cars.
This means a huge saving on filling in potholes too
We are witnessing the Dawn of the age of EMountain Bikes, afer all they already have better range than Electric Cars, and when the National Grid goes down they can be pedalled around the potholes.
After all that won't be a new experience will it?
Oh Dear
Now the Government will require the same Tax return from them, unfortunately.
Last edited:
How long do you think we will manage to live in the Past?
The question if put to a Brexit Politician would gain a response like this.
The short answer to that can be reached by using GOVE Maths, just divide 66million by a measly say 50, 000 collateral Damage Deaths per year and you have the answer.
Absolutely right of Course
If I had more fingers and toes I could work that out for myself
Experts, as Gove would say
"We've had enough of Experts"
Fair enough, though I would point out the following
It has to be admitted that you don't need much in the way of Wind and wave to cater for 20,100 inhabitants, even though they hardly see daylight during the winter months, so Solar Power may not be a big contributor.
And I don't suppose there is much in the Nature of Blackpool Illuminations and a clubbing scene, or miles of well lit motorways.
Still, I take your point.
Making Councils responsible for applying restrictions to Diesels and even Petrol cars is on the face of a it a cute "Get out of jail free card" for the Government, but it could seriously backfire on them.
It demonstrates contempt for the Motorist and unwillingness to accept responsibility.
They are of course blaming Brown's New Labour Government for promoting Diesel, conveniently ignoring the fact that they have had many years in power where they had the opportunity to change his policy but chose not to do so.
Interestingly the readers comments, even among the Sun readers, are scathing not of Brown, but of the present regime.
It demonstrates contempt for the Motorist and unwillingness to accept responsibility.
They are of course blaming Brown's New Labour Government for promoting Diesel, conveniently ignoring the fact that they have had many years in power where they had the opportunity to change his policy but chose not to do so.
Interestingly the readers comments, even among the Sun readers, are scathing not of Brown, but of the present regime.
These "clever men" who invented things were dirty and some even wore overalls and had filthy hands. They weren't fit to join the professional classes and became extinct. Universities don't train as many of this underclass these days, the exams are unnecessarily difficult to obtain a degree, and too much lecture time is involved.
These days, we produce a cleaner, more palatable professional trained in party planning, playing games, taking pictures or even being of able to tell you who starred in which film. Unlike something less useful, Mechanical Engineering for instance, the modern degree is quick and easy to obtain requiring only a few hours of study & lecture time. Plus, everyone passes and can look forward to a proud day when a tearful dad gives a big hug at the graduation day.
Why would anyone want to waste their life studying and working hard only to become an engineer at the end? It wouldn't surprise me if engineers had their graduation day somewhere separate and isolated from the proper students. This would prevent oily cross contamination from overalls and flat cap to gown and mortarboard. A workshop with vices, files, benches and pieces metal strewn around would be a better environment.
Last edited:
The problem is that the rest of the world imagines that this is what Engineering consists of
Clearly the rest of the world is deluded then. This great and proud nation of ours knows that all things good appear by magic in a shipping container from China. That's where the electric will come from to power our cars, China will send the electric here on a big boat. All we need to do is plan parties and take pictures to pay for it.The problem is that the rest of the world imagines that this is what Engineering consists of
Yes engineers use m/s, sailors tend to use knots and windsurfers mph in UK and kmh in Europe...no idea why.
And your point re wind speed / energy is obviously correct...but it reinforces my point about power generated at low wind speeds.( ie at 8mph turbine will generate about 1/20th of optimum at 30 mph)
No matter what you say I know the wind in UK...( and a few other places)
There is simply not enough of it to have viable wind turbines or regular windsurfing.
Fact. (Most windsurfers now look at sport like snow skiing...go abroad for wind)
Why don't you believe the figures given for turbines ? Why should engineers give reduced figures ? They would inflate them if anything. Figures of 15% are the norm...which is about number of viable planing sailing days...or perhaps I,ve got my sailing days wrong for last 50 years ??
Looking out my window today, its about 5mph at moment???That's the acid test, not some report you have read!
Ps. 15 was forecast...which raises another problem, many sites ( windguru,windfinder) archive forecast not reported wind...so today will be recorded as 15 mph...( not by all but many) We think Uk is far windier than it actually is.
Over the last 5 weeks on east coast there have been 4 "windy" days. ( ie over 15 mph, f4, 12 knots,22kmh) We sail in the shadow of a great big farm...they only work when my board does..!!!!
The unit we use is irrelevant. Its either windy enough or not. At least 80% of days it isn't.
Last edited:
We area long way from this situation, oil has been getting cheaper and more plentiful despite all the prophesies of the opposite.
I think the wind industry has had no shortage of these skills, invariable grossly misrepresenting the true cost comparisons with other sources of energy. The energy industry that has suffered the greatest from unjustified criticism has been nuclear, always portrayed as being the most expensive, especially by the wind industry. Strange that France produces a big surplus of what is the cheapest energy in Europe using near 80% nuclear, and able to sell it in bulk to many other countries in consequence.
Wind has a place, but we are giving it a dangerously large place. I well remember 1976 when a huge high pressure zone settled stationary over the UK from late June to September and winds vanished. A repeat of that with our intended wind dependance would be a disaster, especially now that we wish to become a larger manufacturing nation once again.
As for thinking big, i wish we would think big about tidal which is a 100% reliable power source and where we have some of the largest tidal ranges on earth. Dual damming estuaries provides clean 24 hour a day power at stable rates, exactly what we most need.
.
Have you ever been to a modern factory?
Here's a picture of the Mclaren factory so you can see how out of touch with the way the world is going.
not an oily rag in sight... aim forwards not backwards
I did a masters degree and my dissertation was on Wind Energy, I presented a paper to the government as part of their initial wave of applications for offshore wind farms. I worked on a number of their planning applications for the consultancy that I was employed by... then I got head hunted and worked in the nuclear industry for some time.
What you've said there sounds like the sort of spin that's pumped out by the nuclear lobby who are concerned they'll loose their money spinning business.
Are you allowed and authorised to say that? significantly I don't recall any Politician making such a Fantastically out of the Box suggestion.
Surely Tax Havens are the Future ? (or so we are told)