Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldtom]

Scotland will happily settle for just making another World Cup, I am starting to forget the last time, nineties right sure we always went home after the opening stages but it's good to be there, our game just isn't producing the talent and the people running it are clueless on how to improve things.

I'm old enough Mal to remember when there was some decent football played north of the border. Sadly, the parochial nature of Scottish football and the domination by two teams meant that no progress was made over several decades, indeed the game went backwards while the FA in England and wealthy individuals there decided they needed to attract investment in order to compete on the bigger stage beyond domestic competition.

That seems to have been lost on those who control Scottish football but the whole mentality is so inward-looking that even when the debacle occurred at Ibrox, instead of looking to find a way of producing some changes, bringing about meaningful improvement to the game in general, a great many of the clubs decided to indulge instead in a brutal and prolonged exercise in 'kicking a man when he is down'.

Unfortunately, the gap between the standard of football in the two nations has now become a chasm and that seems unlikely to change so I cannot envisage any more world cups for the 'tartan army' to attend. Perhaps someone will discover a magic tree just like Mrs Maybe and invest to the tune of many millions in Aberdeen, Hearts or Hibs, for example. That might shake things up a bit. Rangers had their chance to do something when they were relegated to the lowest tier of the Scottish League. They could have embarked on a 10-15 year plan by applying to join at the lowest level of the Football League in England, with a view to reaching and competing in the Premier League. and perhaps beyond.

Rangers chose, however, to take on, unambitiously, what may turn out be an equally long-term challenge just in order to become a big fish again in a small pond.

Sad times for football fans in Scotland, I'm afraid.

Tom

 

[Danidl]

And there lies the problem. No matter how qualified as an engineer you cant extract energy where there is none! Perhaps nuclear energy are being truthful. ? Like I said to Danid, just look out your window. Over 80% of days in UK are under 10 mph. Fact.
Either your turbines have to work fully at 8mph, or its windier than I,m saying. Which is it KTM ?

PS. Totally irrelevant but..I have degree in Physics and qualified as electro/ mechanical engineer at Dunford Hatfields about 50 years ago. Things might have changed since then but 3 things have not.a) The wind is fickle, particularly in UK.
B) Fundamental laws of physics. There simply I not the energy required within diameter of turbine blades in an 8mph wind to warrant harvesting it. They become viable ( as I,m sure you know ) at around 15 mph...which is higher than actual wind speed average in UK when the above 50mph's are discounted.
Like I,ve said..look out your window. Its forecast good winds for today...they have not appeared.

Welcome fellow physicist, but back to facts.
Viable is an interesting term . As a boating type you will be familiar with fishing quotas , restricted fishing times etc, so the prospect of multiple trawlers holed up in port for weeks on end, and then periodically released for a few days... Is this not viable., It's still lucrative.
Many of the turbines cut in at 2.5m/s wind and are generating at anything above that. Others are designed to cut in at 4 and 5m/s .. approx. 1m/s is 0.5mph.
To use full power as your metric, is not a valid measure, most turbines will operate at 25% to 40% of annualised full power . Just like trawlers might come back with their holds 30% full. .. you cannot get fishes or wind unless it's there.
In coastal areas, as where I live, there is a significant wind resource. One thing I did notice from my caravaning days, was how little wind there was in the home counties around London.

 

[Danidl]

Sensible? well now i've never been accused of that, just about everything else, but never sensible.
If memory serves, the term "A necessary Evil" is about the highest praise that comes to mind, and yet in a company where over the years redundancy often cut a swathe, the few Mechanical Engineers always seemed to survive the purges.
Being invisible did have a plus side!

Well job security is ok then, the only problem is when one is seen as an unnecessary evil!!

 

[Kudoscycles]

We were all persuaded to go diesel and now governments want to ban it....did we not know the pollution when we promoted it?
I am not wedded to either petrol or diesel,would happily drive either but being forced to go electric is not attractive and anyway our government is just as likely to change their minds again.
Modern small petrol engines are amazingly economical these days and fast enough,why cant they develop fuel/exhausts that remove the pollutes to the point where we are all happy.
I suppose we will have hybreds where the engine is still exciting and the electric a bonus....BMW i8 for example.
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

Well job security is ok then, the only problem is when one is seen as an unnecessary evil!!

Didn't you learn the basic Jedi mind trick in your training years? you know the one, it relies on Executives being relatively easy to influence and mislead.
You wave a clipboard, pen, vernier caliper or spanners gently to distract the superior and mutter quietly
"This is not the Engineer you are looking for, move along!"
And leg it before they come round?
Worked for me every time.

 

[Danidl]

Your 50 mph figure may be too high,my office overlooks the Kent offshore wind farm,anything much above 30 mph and they are not rotating...I am told by a friend that the crown wheel and pinion gears that transfer rotation horizontal energy to rotation vertical energy cant take the load.
KudosDave

.. that would be true. The speed of rotation of the blades remains pretty constant. The pitch of the blades is continuously altered in order to extract power. Looking at the monitor for these beasts , shows huge power swings over time scales of a second.. from 10% to 90% in the blink of an eye... Incidentally you can estimate the power being absorbed, by looking at the blades in profile. If they are bent towards the tower, the power is high, when they are vertical , much less..

 

[Kudoscycles]

An article by Simon Jenkins for the Guardian makes interesting reading,it is headed that hardline Brexit is not only undesirable it is impossible...I was tempted to lift the whole article but the following gives a taster...

'I know of no Brexiters who really want tariffs and trade barriers against Europe’s markets. I know of few who want NHS and care workers sent packing, or British fruit farms to close, or to have to get visas every time they visit Europe. There is no way the UK can replicate 35 EU regulatory agencies, all operating under the European court of justice. There is no sum that has trade lost to Europe replaced by trade with the rest of the world. Every economic model, however sceptical, has Brexit costing the British economy dear'
KudosDave

 

[Danidl]

Didn't you learn the basic Jedi mind trick in your training years? you know the one, it relies on Executives being relatively easy to influence and mislead.
You wave a clipboard, pen, vernier caliper or spanners gently to distract the superior and mutter quietly
"This is not the Engineer you are looking for, move along!"
And leg it before they come round?
Worked for me every time.

... And when you become the superior???

 

[flecc]

Many of the turbines cut in at 2.5m/s wind and are generating at anything above that. Others are designed to cut in at 4 and 5m/s .. approx. 1m/s is 0.5mph.

Some cut in at 1.25 mph wind speed?

Others cut in at 2 to 2.5 mph?

These are nonsense figures which even the BWEA wouldn't support.
.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Some cut in at 1.25 mph wind speed?

Others cut in at 2 to 2.5 mph?

These are nonsense figures which even the BWEA wouldn't support.
.

BWEA hasn't existed since 2009 apart from that you're bang up to date lol

and small non commercial turbines can operate at wind speeds of 2+ mph. So the statement was technically correct.

 

[flecc]

and small non commercial turbines can operate at wind speeds of 2+ mph. So the statement was technically correct.

More wind lobby distortion! The large ones we are speaking of generally start being a little useful at around 8 mph wind speed, a multiple of the nonsense figures I was commenting on.
.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

More wind lobby distortion! The large ones we are speaking of generally start being a little useful at around 8 mph wind speed, a multiple of the nonsense figures I was commenting on.
.

Yes, but we're discussing something that is just details. ie, they all generate some power, so what's the problem. If better techology comes along they can be removed and the long term negative impact is pretty much zero. The same can't be said for a nuclear power station (not that I'm saying nuclear doesn't have a place) I'm just capable of being pro something without having to be negative something else.

Wind has a place, and knocking it because its only good at certain speeds is pointless. Its great at certain speeds, so lets find places where those speeds are found, or improve the technology so that it works in a wider range of speeds.

And its not nonsense figures to say that wind turbines can cut in at those low speeds, because they do, its just the light weight ones that many farms and business and homes can benefit from.

 

[flecc]

Many pro nuclear people, feel the need to knock other forms of energy because they see it as a threat

If you're pro nuclear, that's fine. But why knock wind?

So why are you doing the same below? France has been hugely successful with nuclear power at consistently low costs.

If you get behind the scenes of a nuclear power station, the numbers are insane, they never recover their costs, and the long long long term solution for waste storage still hasn't been sorted. They are currently pulling nuclear waste out of pipes at the existing power stations because its just been "left" in places that were considered safe in the 70s / 80s.

.

 

[oldtom]

One thing I did notice from my caravaning days, was how little wind there was in the home counties around London.

You never got to Westminster then? There's more than enough wind and hot air generated there!

Tom

 

[flecc]

And its not nonsense figures to say that wind turbines can cut in at those low speeds, because they do, its just the light weight ones that many farms and business and homes can benefit from.

Off subject. In the sea turbine field context that I was answering the figures were and remain nonsense.
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Barnier is saying that he needs more positive from the EU negotiators about the 3 initial elements....this is political speak for have we a plan for Ireland,are we going to agree to all the EU demands for citizens rights and are we going to pay £55 billion to leave. If he doesnt get positive vibes and he is on record as saying that he is not hopeful,based on current progress then we can 'whistle' for any tariff free trade deal discussions commencing.
Looks like Barnier thinks we are more urgent for a free trade deal than he is,which is probably true.
Liam Fox is busy trying to get a free trade deal with China and Davis is trying to negotiate a free trade deal with the EU. The EU are not stupid they will not allow us to buy tariff free from China and then ship tariff free into Europe,when the Europeans are still paying tariffs for goods that come direct from China to Europe. If we get a free trade deal with China then I am sure the EU will think of the UK as a satellite of China and slap the same tariffs on us as if it was being shipped direct from China.
KudosDave

 

[anotherkiwi]

So why are you doing the same below? France has been hugely successful with nuclear power at consistently low costs.
.

Well... Some of the plants are going to have to close soon. Guess who is going to be paying for that? We'll see how it works out cost wise but I am not hugely optimistic. Maybe when they invent a plant that uses waste as fuel things will balance out.

Energy factoid: did you know that Spain taxes solar panels (at least on private homes)? Spanish politicians are as forward looking as UK ones apparently, there is a bit of climate science denial among them too.

 

[oldgroaner]

... And when you become the superior???

Alas the Force ran out of my Bungie elastic before that happens so I was spared being tempted by the Dark side.
Actually it didn't work out like that, I was actually running a small department of fourteen, and one day invented something as a result of a challenge by the MD of the nature "If you can do that simpler Mr Smart Guy"
I did, it was patented here and in America, and he said "You're wasted doing that job, from today you work for me"
It was one of those offers with no increase in pay, unlimited hours and no possibility of refusal.
So I lost my cushy job for being a Smart Ass, and ended up as his Fan Cleaner for the rest of my days.
To be fair it was a hell of a lot of Fun!

There is a Moral there: keep your head down!

 

[Woosh]

So why are you doing the same below? France has been hugely successful with nuclear power at consistently low costs.

it's only because they can send their wastes for reprocessing in the UK.

 

[Woosh]

Off subject. In the sea turbine field context that I was answering the figures were and remain nonsense.
.

offshore wind farms generation cost dropped about 30% in 5 years.
It is on par costwise with nuclear power at the moment.
The larger the turbine, the lower the cost.
You are also not limited by size with offshore wind farms.
in 20-30 years, offshore wind farms are projected to be cheaper than burning coal.