Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

Can you instance occasions in these negotiationswhere the official line from the EU has been vindictive?

assuming that the EU's current budget cycle is 2013-2020, it is only fair that if the EU demands that the UK pays up to the end of the cycle, it should also accept that the UK is entitled to use the subscribed time as transitional period if it so wishes.
The EU seems to want the money and block the benefit of access to market.

 

[oldtom]

assuming that the EU's current budget cycle is 2013-2020, it is only fair that if the EU demands that the UK pays up to the end of the cycle, it should also accept that the UK is entitled to use the subscribed time as transitional period if it so wishes.
The EU seems to want the money and block the benefit of access to market.

I think you have lost the plot.

Tom

 

[Woosh]

I think you have lost the plot.

Tom

I look past brexit.
you can't even bring yourself to see brexit happening.

 

[oldtom]

This is the here and now in Germany. Why do some British people imagine that by seceding from the EU, we will somehow improve our trading arrangements and become affluent like Germany?

It wasn't breathtaking arrogance or some kind of god-given right that propelled Germany to become the most powerful and successful country in mainland Europe; it was hard work, commitment and a very deliberate mindset which forced them to recognise their past but rather than dwell on it, to demonstrate how they can improve the lot of their people, indeed all people, without resort to military action in order to steal what they want from other states.



There is a common thread which runs through all of the ills in the UK - see if you can work it out!

Tom

 

[Kudoscycles]

If we are being asked to pay the membership fee shouldn't we enjoy all the benefits of the club up to the date we leave the club.
But we already are being excluded from meetings and decision making,if that is the case then we should only pay our fees up to the date we triggered A50.
Not that I want to leave the club.
This is probably a strong negotiating point,these payments are needed by the EU and they cannot afford a cliff edge loss.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

I look past brexit.
you can't even bring yourself to see brexit happening.

I already trade with many of the countries that Liam Fox seems desperate to have a free trade deal,I have never found the small tariffs to be a hindrance to trade. The exception is China,which has massive import tariffs but I cannot think of any product that I could sell to the Chinese.
KudosDave

 

[Danidl]

assuming that the EU's current budget cycle is 2013-2020, it is only fair that if the EU demands that the UK pays up to the end of the cycle, it should also accept that the UK is entitled to use the subscribed time as transitional period if it so wishes.
The EU seems to want the money and block the benefit of access to market.

... Based on what information? . For my part I would like the UK to have an infinite duration transitional period, during which they have full access to the market and also play by the rules of the game Mind you, I think that they should also have full representation in parliament and in the council during that transitional phase....

 

[oldtom]

you can't even bring yourself to see brexit happening.

You have no idea what I see but as you are a stranger to the truth, perhaps you would like to reprise all my posts and identify where I have said anything to that effect.

I may have said on several occasions that I hope good sense will prevail and we don't have to suffer the agonies which secession will surely bring upon us. You will find though, that I have stated my agreement with OG that the best course of action now in this debacle would be to let it run its course and let all the idiots who have predicted how well the UK will do once unshackled from the EU, really begin to feel the economic pain that "Brexit' will produce, contrary to your ridiculous ramblings.

Tom

 

[Woosh]

it seems to me that the EU is responsible for making brexit more expensive for both sides.
Despite its numerous position papers on brexit, the EU is strangely absent on its trade policy after brexit.
It tacitly agrees with the hard brexiters that the UK shall have a hard exit or no brexit.
This strange position is destructive, vengeful and stops the reconciliation of the British voters as much as a straightforward negotiation.

 

[oldtom]

these payments are needed by the EU and they cannot afford a cliff edge loss.
KudosDave

I have to disagree with your conclusion there Dave. The EU can and will overcome any financial loss through the UK welching on its commitments - it is the UK that will suffer...

....27 beats one every time!

Tom

 

[oldtom]

it seems to me that the EU is responsible for making brexit more expensive for both sides.
Despite numerous position papers on brexit, the EU is strangely absent on its trade policy after brexit.
It tacitly agrees with the hard brexiters that the UK shall have a hard exit or no brexit.
This strange position is destructive, vengeful and stops the reconciliation of the British voters as much as a straightforward negotiation.

And it seems to me that you just don't learn! You are wrong again - the 27....and I repeat that number....27 other sovereign nation states need us far less than we need them - the EU's post-'Brexit' trading policy is nothing to do with the UK. They will manage their situation and adapt accordingly.

Tom

 

[Woosh]

spin it any way you like OT, I do not seek to change your view of the utopian European Union.
But if you can imagine for a moment that the EU declares that it is in its interest to seek a free trade deal with the UK as quickly and on as many areas as possible.
The negotiation would be a lot easier, don't you agree?
Instead, what it says is it seeks to protect the economic interest of the EU27 but does it really by falling back to WTO terms?
My contention is it behaves like it wants to make the UK pay a heavy price for leaving even though it knows that its members will suffer too.
That's what I call a game of chicken.

 

[oldtom]

Clearly, care in the community is not working.

Tom

 

[Woosh]

Clearly, care in the community is not working.

Tom

are you speaking for or about yourself?

 

[Danidl]

it seems to me that the EU is responsible for making brexit more expensive for both sides.
Despite its numerous position papers on brexit, the EU is strangely absent on its trade policy after brexit.
It tacitly agrees with the hard brexiters that the UK shall have a hard exit or no brexit.
This strange position is destructive, vengeful and stops the reconciliation of the British voters as much as a straightforward negotiation.

. The EU position has from the getgo that it will deal with the problems of divorce first and then discuss visiting rights. It has not waived from that at any stage. If the UK negotiators didn't hear that then they were deliberately sticking their fingers in their own ears. It may not be convenient, but it was and is logical. If, as we are a full year after the decision to go, and a number of months after the decision to trigger A50, and no progress has been made on any topic,, there is only one party responsible.
Your last point is bizzare, the EU are not responsible for the responses of the British public. It is not the duty of the EU to placate the voters in Sunderland or elsewhere.
I made the point earlier that the UK is in no position to negotiate because fundamentally it doesn't know what it wants, it only purports to claim what it doesn't want.And its not sure about that either. You can't placate a whining child, who does not know what they want. Mothers might have that gift, but the EU does not.

 

[Danidl]

Clearly, care in the community is not working.

Tom

.. oh come on , we were almost starting to discuss as adults,

 

[shemozzle999]

 

[oldgroaner]

My contention is it behaves like it wants to make the UK pay a heavy price for leaving even though it knows that its members will suffer too.
That's what I call a game of chicken.

Well that is how the long stated sequence that autoatically follows Article 50 has been presented by the press.
Ask one question.
If leaving the EU is such a glittering prize, why don't we simply pay what is after all no more than we would have had to pay we stayed in and actually easily affordable.
Especially considering we have been getting away with a rebate on our contributions since Thatchers time.
Then get on with sorting out the other issues and trade deals.
Why dig our heels in and stop the process?

The answer is of course that the right wing nut jobs have painted themseles in a corner by conning the gullible public that there is a point of principle involved, and stirred up racist connotations to support that.

Unfortunately this shambles is all going as expected. still
"I love it when a Right Wing plot falls gruesomely in ruins" Don't you?

Thought for the day

Brexit is a Marriage made in Hell
Between a Sadist Government and a class of Masochist supporters, damaging the lives and future of of the normally inclined mass who form the Majority of the population, as they squabble.

 

[oldgroaner]

Moggy is good at being an apologist, but not in the same league as Saddam's Minister AKA "Comical Ali" who famously made a broadcast announcing the American tanks had been defeated when they could be heard and seen in the background.

Are you going to throw shoes at the the opposition too, Moggy?

Smooth and eloquent your words may be,
But they smack of Male Bovine Excrement,
Fantasy, deceit and lies to me.

And quite obviously a play is being made to project this creature as a candidate to replace May.
Otherwise what was the point of bringing the skeleton out of the closet?

Put it back Sir Nigel, where it belongs.
And when you are both inside, shut the door after you.

Intersting this about Moggy in the Express
"
May was asked would she give Jacob Rees-Mogg a Cabinet position - this was her reaction...
THERESA MAY has laughed at the suggestion of handing prominent Brexiteer Jacob Rees-Mogg a cabinet role before hailing his “huge contribution” to the House of Commons."

I suspect she thinks the voters DESERVE HIM

 

[oldgroaner]

Funny turn in the Telegraph
"
Brexit is Britain's chance to be a hospitable host to refugees again

Anyone believe that will fly with the Brexit Voters?