Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

I was indoctrinated by you and bigot Tom..
Prick.
And the EU cant get more unfriendly towards us.
Wonder what EU is doing about North Korea? Well we know ...nothing..its not in its remit.
Just sit and watch another Tyrant become more powerful...we make same mistakes again and again.

I disclaim all responsibility for affecting your frame of mind, as I don't tend to meddle where nature is struggling already.
If this "Prick" thing is bothering you perhaps you could sit somewhere less uncomfortable?

Why would the EU have anything to do with North Korea?
Just a helpful hint here, why not write to them yourself and offer your services as a "None antagonistic advisor" after your stirling work on here?

Then we can forget all about Brexit and enjoy World War 3 in all it's glory.

 

[oldgroaner]

Utter BS..you do nothing but put folk down, have been doing so for nearly a year on here.Prick.
Haven't you got a caravan to dig out of mud or something..

The Caravan is on hard standing so, no mud, but you do seem (Even by your standards) not a happy bunny, I never put you down, just help out here and there when you struggle a bit.

 

[oldtom]

It is down to the EU to clarify their objectives.

There is a theme in your posts, particularly your more recent ones. The theme to which I refer is that you seem blinkered and have lost sight of the fact that it is entirely within the gift of the UK government to secure ongoing rights for British people living in the 27 sovereign states of the EU.

This is simply another area which amply demonstrates the ill-conceived notion that exiting the EU would be to the benefit of British people. It cannot be the responsibility of the EU to secure benefits for British citizens when it is the UK which has triggered secession. Had the EU expelled the UK from the union, I could see an argument placing some onus on the EU.

The first matter on the UK's agenda should have been to offer an assurance to the EU states that nothing in the subsequent negotiations would be to the detriment of EU citizens living in the UK and that we seek a similar assurance from the EU in respect of British citizens living in the EU.

The British government has entered into these negotiations with no plan and is most certainly using a number of our own citizens as bargaining chips and that is wrong. The uncertainty for those Europeans living and/or working in the UK is equally wrong but while you are right to express concern for people on this occasion, rather than your usual trade/economic/monetary matters, you are nevertheless wrong to place the blame for the present situation on the EU.

It is not for the EU to clarify its objectives because we know what those are as we are still members - it is incumbent upon the exiting party to provide such assurances as necessary to ensure the safety and well-being of its citizens post-secession. I don't understand how you can possibly seek to place blame on the EU for matters that should have been considered by the UK. We knew the rules in regard to membership and it is our choice to terminate that membership - it would be perverse to imagine that the EU has any obligation to fix matters that the UK government should have planned for.

Tom

 

[oldtom]

Most of the 27 members can derive benefits from such a merger, UK and Ireland are not in the same situation.

Is it not the case that both the UK and Ireland have enjoyed numerous benefits over the last 44 years? Perhaps you weren't around in the 1960s and early 1970s because if you were, your memory isn't good.

Tom

 

[Woosh]

Is it not the case that both the UK and Ireland have enjoyed numerous benefits over the last 44 years? Perhaps you weren't around in the 1960s and early 1970s because if you were, your memory isn't good.

Tom

I lived in France in the 60s and came to England in the 70s, just after the UK joined the EC.
I agree that the UK has benefited from joining, the EU has been a stabilizing influence for a long time. However, the situation has changed. Our economy has grown stronger, we can now leave.
The EU on the other hand has become too large. It is entirely logical for it to want to become a federated state, with more direct rule from the centre.
Would we want to be in it? I think you know the answer.

 

[oldtom]

The UK is different in the sense that it has never been quite colonized like most other members. Plus, the English language sets us apart in the sense that we feel possibly more global despite our small landmass.

That's an interesting take on British history 'Woosh'. However, it isn't one that would attract much support from those who have actually read and understand how we British came to be what we are today.

Tom

 

[Woosh]

the point is still same, we have always been semi-detached from the EU.
We will be a little bit more detached after the transitional period.

 

[oldtom]

the point is still same, we have always been semi-detached from the EU.
We will be a little bit more detached after the transitional period.

You see, there is where we disagree fundamentally; I want to live in a united Europe, just as Churchill foresaw over half a century ago. To be a part of a nation isolated from our nearest neighbours and having to compete in a global marketplace is not where the UK should be in the 21st century.

Tom

 

[Woosh]

I am lucky enough in this, I can always go back to France.
what if you can't, oldtom?

 

[oldtom]

I am lucky enough in this, I can always go back to France.
what if you can't, oldtom?

At my age, it isn't of great concern but I do have family in Paris and part of my ancestry is French.

I also have family in Australia, NZ, Ireland, Thailand and Denmark. I choose, however, to live in Spain for varying periods each year and depending on how things progress with secession, I may change my main domicile to Spain.

Apparently, I am advised that I am entitled to an Irish passport (after my mother) but I haven't yet explored the possibilities that Irish citizenship might provide. Spain enjoys slightly more agreeable weather than the Emerald Isle, though!

Tom

 

[Zlatan]

Get off Tom...you,ll really love the racism , crime, youth unemployment, poverty, corruption and red tape in Spain..You won't tho...Wilbert Gunna...you,ll stay in UK with all its benefits, not appreciating any but moan moan fecking moan about Tories, Brexit and whatever bigots find to go on about.
BTW, very poor use of comma in your post though.We should introduce a grammar test to keep standards up.

 

[Zlatan]

BTW..take Robdon and OG with you. Can you imagine going for tapas and meeting OG, Tom and Robknob in same bar.What a nightmare. Mind bet they don't drink, and Spanish don't like caravans or bigots.( or Brits,or French, but have a passion for Gibraltar)

 

[oldtom]

Out of the EU and standing alone, who exactly will the UK have as friends?

The Commonwealth countries are too far away and cannot service all our needs anyway. The USA is not our friend and had it not been for the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, they probably wouldn't have entered world war 2, ultimately with the aid of the Russians, saving Europe and elsewhere from total German domination.

What about the middle-east where Mrs May tells us we have friends and allies in the Saudi Arabians? I'm not sure that is good news and this little clip provides a potted history of our relationship with that country:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1895320917419043

Tom

 

[Danidl]

I am lucky enough in this, I can always go back to France.
what if you can't, oldtom?

...Does that not say a lot?

 

[Woosh]

No. You took it slightly out of context.

 

[Danidl]

No. You took it slightly out of context.

.. not quite, as a French citizen you have the right to reside in some 27 countries in the future and 28 at present. You also (presumably), have rights of residence in a number of French dependencies in the Caribbean and elsewhere. Such freedom of movement, even if not excercised, is a major comfort.
What would your attitude be if the UK immigration service decided that post 29th march 2017 or 2019 you were persona non Grata and had 48 hours to leave?

 

[Woosh]

it's not likely though, is it? anyway, I am naturalised British many years now. I have been living here 40 years.

 

[oldgroaner]

No. You took it slightly out of context.

Did he indeed? then what context was intended?

 

[Danidl]

At my age, it isn't of great concern but I do have family in Paris and part of my ancestry is French.

I also have family in Australia, NZ, Ireland, Thailand and Denmark. I choose, however, to live in Spain for varying periods each year and depending on how things progress with secession, I may change my main domicile to Spain.

Apparently, I am advised that I am entitled to an Irish passport (after my mother) but I haven't yet explored the possibilities that Irish citizenship might provide. Spain enjoys slightly more agreeable weather than the Emerald Isle, though!

Tom

... Trailor , turncoat, shure this only the wetness of the rain that makes the Irish so green. They may have more sun in Spain and only have rain on the plains, but what other small country could give you the four seasons including sun ,rain, sleet , storm's and snow on the same day!

 

[oldgroaner]

BTW..take Robdon and OG with you. Can you imagine going for tapas and meeting OG, Tom and Robknob in same bar.What a nightmare. Mind bet they don't drink, and Spanish don't like caravans or bigots.( or Brits,or French, but have a passion for Gibraltar)

All would go along swimmingly until you arrive, doing your impression of Rab C, Nesbit, hit the bar and open your mouth.
At this point no doubt we would discover if indeed the Spanish eschew the attitudes to have attributed to them.
We would be betting how many minutes before the locals helped you into the street. and whether it would be via the door or through the window.
Now that would add a "Fiesta feeling" to the evening.