Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Blaming the UK government for creating or prolonging this uncomfortable situation is shortsighted, I think. The real culprits are those in Brussels that make a bad situation worse.

Now how have you reached that conclusion?
Cameron promised to trigger article 50 the Monday after the Referendum.
The EU had exactly NOTHING to do with the huge delay, had they?
It is not The EU that has responsibility for the fate of either group.
All the UK Government has to do is the decent and honourable thing of announcing that their rights will be respected, but no, it doesn't give a damn about them, only wants to use them as bargaining chips, as if their lives and welfare are of no value.
It is in fact Holding them hostage pending Ransom negotiations .

 

[oldgroaner]

So you win again..pr!ck.
And Caravans should be banned; especially when driven by folk who haven't passed a test to drive them.They are menace, dangerous and have no place on modern roads.
And were it not for your despised government EU would have introduced MOT style testing for caravans and HGV test for the idiots that want to hold up traffic with the useless things...( Trailers in France even have to be registered !!)
Yet another area you don't even realise what our government has done for you...in defiance of your EU...
Pr!ck.

What happened to the Genius who came on here with the intent NOT to antagonise people?
Sorry but I'm still laughing, and you seem to be upset with yourself for some reason, didn't you get an Easter Egg?

 

[Woosh]

The EU had exactly NOTHING to do with the huge delay, had they?

Expats are priority #1 in the forthcoming negotiation.
they could have expressed some preference regarding the expats to quiet their fears. They could start negotiating now. We are waiting for them, not the other way round.
The UK government is quite clear on expats for months now. We have no objection to residency as long as the applicants have health insurance and can support themselves financially.

 

[oldgroaner]

they could have expressed some preference regarding the expats to quiet their fears. They could start negotiating now. We are waiting for them, not the other way round.
The UK government is quite clear on expats for months now. We have no objection to residency as long as the applicants have health insurance and can support themselves financially.

Negotiate what exactly? these people are clearly the responsibility of our Government to deal with.
No excuses are acceptable, just announce their rights and welfare will be respected.
That should be a given, not up for debate

 

[Woosh]

Negotiate what exactly? these people are clearly the responsibility of our Government to deal with.
No excuses are acceptable, just announce their rights and welfare will be respected.
That should be a given, not up for debate

their health insurance (S1 certificate) is a matter for negotiation. Until now, there are reciprocity arrangements and that should continue but until the EU confirm that is also what they want, there is uncertainty. We can't onesidedly make promises for the EU.
After we leave the EU, each member of the EU can treat UK citizens the way they want, the EU treaties cease to apply to our expats. For that reason, we cannot unilaterally make promises how the 27 will treat our expats.
It is down to the EU to clarify their objectives.

 

[oldgroaner]

their health insurance (S1 certificate) is a matter for negotiation. Until now, there are reciprocity arrangements and that should continue but until the EU confirm that is also what they want, there is uncertainty. We can't onesidedly make promises for the EU.
After we leave the EU, each member of the EU can treat UK citizens the way they want, the EU treaties cease to apply to our expats. For that reason, we cannot unilaterally make promises how the 27 will treat our expats.
It is down to the EU to clarify their objectives.

Nonsense simply say all present obligations will be respected and we expect you to reciprocate, unless other arrangements are preferred, what could be easier than that?

 

[oldgroaner]

Expats are priority #1 in the forthcoming negotiation.
they could have expressed some preference regarding the expats to quiet their fears. They could start negotiating now. We are waiting for them, not the other way round.
The UK government is quite clear on expats for months now. We have no objection to residency as long as the applicants have health insurance and can support themselves financially.

Have you forgotten that that is the actual present requirement already and has been for many years?

 

[Woosh]

Nonsense simply say all present obligations will be respected and we expect you to reciprocate, unless other arrangements are preferred, what could be easier than that?

that is the UK's general position, just waiting for the EU to have their say.
There is no need to call my post nonsense.

 

[Woosh]

Have you forgotten that that is the actual present requirement already and has been for many years?

yes, I know. I have some personal experience on the matter.
In all probability, things should continue as they are.
However, because we leave the club, we don't know for sure until it's agreed.
Only the EU can make this happen. They control the agenda.
We are the underdog.

 

[oldgroaner]

yes, I know. I have some personal experience on the matter.
In all probability, things should continue as they are.
However, because we leave the club, we don't know for sure until it's agreed.
Only the EU can make this happen. They control the agenda.
We are the underdog.

How right you are! we are undeed the underdog, an entirely unnecessary predicament we have brought on ourselves.

 

[oldgroaner]

that is the UK's general position, just waiting for the EU to have their say.
There is no need to call my post nonsense.

Very well I'll rephrase that.
Delete: nonsense
Insert: Your comment does not make sense.

Funny but it amounts to pretty much the same thing

 

[Woosh]

How right you are! we are undeed the underdog, an entirely unnecessary predicament we have brought on ourselves.

I agree that it is a predicament.
However, there will never be a better time to leave the club if you don't want to be part of a federated state.
Most of the 27 members can derive benefits from such a merger, UK and Ireland are not in the same situation.

 

[oldgroaner]

Yet another area you don't even realise what our government has done for you...in defiance of your EU...
Pr!ck.

I love the way you contradict yourself, but thank you for proving that when it could be bothered to involve itself in the operation of the EU, the government could indeed impose it's will on the community.
Which begs the question how come the EU is accused of being Dictatorial, etc., etc?

 

[Woosh]

Very well I'll rephrase that.
Delete: nonsense
Insert: Your comment does not make sense.

Funny but it amounts to pretty much the same thing

OG, I don't generally trash the opposite arguments with pejoratives, especially when I have not fully understood what the other person means.
They seem to me counterproductive because if it turns out later that my opponent is more right than me, I will find myself obliged to offer apology.

 

[oldgroaner]

I agree that it is a predicament.
However, there will never be a better time to leave the club if you don't want to be part of a federated state.
Most of the 27 members can derive benefits from such a merger, UK and Ireland are not in the same situation.

This is where we differ, as I am of the opinion that the formation of a United States of Europe is not only desirable, but inevitable, and even on that we had negotiated no further integration for us, so it wan't in fact really an issue was it?
And now it will form anyway and might even become less than friendly towards us.

 

[Zlatan]

What happened to the Genius who came on here with the intent NOT to antagonise people?
Sorry but I'm still laughing, and you seem to be upset with yourself for some reason, didn't you get an Easter Egg?

I was indoctrinated by you and bigot Tom..
Prick.
And the EU cant get more unfriendly towards us.
Wonder what EU is doing about North Korea? Well we know ...nothing..its not in its remit.
Just sit and watch another Tyrant become more powerful...we make same mistakes again and again.
Oh, I forgot EU has kept peace throughout world since 1945...would be funny if it wasn't so catastrophically dangerous. World on brink of nuclear destruction...and EU cant do a thing...just talk about it in Brussels. What a joke.

 

[Woosh]

This is where we differ, as I am of the opinion that the formation of a United States of Europe is not only desirable, but inevitable, and even on that we had negotiated no further integration for us, so it wan't in fact really an issue was it?
And now it will form anyway and might even become less than friendly towards us.

the federated state of the EU seems inevitable also to me.
The benefits are also clear to me, we see Rome achieved great things, a sparkling civilization.
The UK is different in the sense that it has never been quite colonized like most other members. Plus, the English language sets us apart in the sense that we feel possibly more global despite our small landmass.
Whatever your view, we have triggered A50. The adventure begins. We'll know better where we are going at the end of the transition.

 

[oldgroaner]

OG, I don't generally trash the opposite arguments with pejoratives, especially when I have not fully understood what the other person means.
They seem to me counterproductive because if it turns out later that my opponent is more right than me, I will find myself obliged to offer apology.

It all comes down to temperament I suppose but as you can see I do try to be positive in attitude at the expense perhaps of assuming the other person has a similar mindset, this is perhaps part of the Yorkshire attitude of calling a spade a spade.
If a Yorkshireman regards something you say as "Daft" the reaction will be predictable, but that does not mean insult is intended.
Believe me if one is, you will be the first to know...
Your person is inviolate, but your argument is not!

 

[oldgroaner]

the federated state of the EU seems inevitable also to me.
The benefits are also clear to me, we see Rome achieved great things, a sparkling civilization.
The UK is different in the sense that it has never been quite colonized like most other members. Plus, the English language sets us apart in the sense that we feel possibly more global despite our small landmass.
Whatever your view, we have triggered A50. The adventure begins. We'll know better where we are going at the end of the transition.

You see? we are in agreement on may aspects, but I beg to differ on the so called purity of the "English" who are
German, French, Danish, Norse, Scots, Welsh Irish and just about every other race under the sun.
We have been continuously invaded on a daily basis for thousands of years and our very language is about as Mongrel as you can get!

 

[Zlatan]

It all comes down to temperament I suppose but as you can see I do try to be positive in attitude at the expense perhaps of assuming the other person has a similar mindset, this is perhaps part of the Yorkshire attitude of calling a spade a spade.
If a Yorkshireman regards something you say as "Daft" the reaction will be predictable, but that does not mean insult is intended.
Believe me if one is, you will be the first to know...
Your person is inviolate, but your argument is not!

Utter BS..you do nothing but put folk down, have been doing so for nearly a year on here.Prick.
Haven't you got a caravan to dig out of mud or a traffic jam to make.