Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

I still remember road signs in different shape, size, colour. You could instantly recognize in which country they were used. Now, roads, towns, cities look the same, people wear the same sort of clothes. Even restaurants get uniformized. Sad or I am too old?

 

[flecc]

Now, roads, towns, cities look the same, people wear the same sort of clothes. Sad or I am too old?

I've always regarded that as due to commercialisation, nothing to do with the EU. Everywhere we go we see the same supermarkets, the same clothing shops, the same sports shops. So the brands we are offered are the same and uniformity results. Supra-national too, Tesco, McDonalds, Aldi, Lidl etc spreading everywhere before any chance of European union. I agree with you that it's sad and wish it weren't so, but I know it's commerce that causes it.

And of course the internet makes our young ever more uniform worldwide.

It's a ship that's sailed, and there's no going back.
.

 

[Woosh]

It's a ship that's sailed, and there's no going back

Yes, but there is a lot of identity left to preserve.
Why is it so wrong to attempt to reduce political interference getting too much into trade and cooperation?

 

[D8ve]

Yes, but there is a lot of identity left to preserve.
Why is it so wrong to attempt to reduce political interference getting too much into trade and cooperation?

Because companies like BAT will sell stuff for a profit even if it kills people.
And lie and deceive to protect the fat cats.

 

[oldgroaner]

Because companies like BAT will sell stuff for a profit even if it kills people.
And lie and deceive to protect the fat cats.

Succintly put!

 

[Woosh]

Succintly put!

but not connected to brexit though.
Reduction in smoking is much more of a WHO than EU project and taxes on cigarettes are higher in the UK than the other side of the Channel.

 

[oldgroaner]

Yes, but there is a lot of identity left to preserve.
Why is it so wrong to attempt to reduce political interference getting too much into trade and cooperation?

More people survive without being poisoned perhaps? in my case I was long term exposed to Asbestos, Silicosis, Carcinogens from Vitreous Enamelling processes that utilised lead content Frit Sulphric Acid contained in foundry fumes Silicosis from Vitreous China manufacture and even British Rail Sandwches, and Naafi Rock Cakes.
Damn me if I don't know which was worst.

 

[oldgroaner]

but not connected to brexit though.
Reduction in smoking is much more of a WHO than EU project and taxes on cigarettes are higher in the UK than the other side of the Channel.

The point beng made is that after Brexit there will undoubtedly a case where that Idiot Rees Mogg and his "Reduce standards to those of India" and people like him will hold sway.
And Health and Safety standards will wither on the vine as they impact profit, you have indicated as much yourself with
"Why is it so wrong to attempt to reduce political interference getting too much into trade and cooperation?"

 

[oldgroaner]

Setting an example for those who care to see it From the Telegraph
"
'Epitome of hypocrisy': Donald Trump under fire from veterans for wearing flight jacket and admiral's hat.
Donald Trump, who received five deferments from the Vietnam war draft, has angered military veterans by wearing a flight jacket and an admiral's cap during a visit aboard an aircraft carrier.

What do you expect? him not to act the Fool?

 

[Woosh]

The point beng made is that after Brexit there will undoubtedly a case where that Idiot Rees Mogg and his "Reduce standards to those of India" and people like him will hold sway.

I think most people will not care for the likes of Rees who.
Those idiots will always try to say something inflammatory to make themselves look interesting.
There will be fresh election from now to the UK exiting the EU or very shortly after that, you can always use your vote to register your choice for the future.

 

[oldgroaner]

I think most people will not care for the likes of Rees who.
Those idiots will always try to say something inflammatory to make themselves look interesting.
There will be fresh election from now to the UK exiting the EU or very shortly after that, you can always use your vote to register your choice for the future.

By voting for "None of the Above" Where is the opposition for me to vote for?
All that will happen is nothing will happen, the Torys will simply increase their majority and the madness continue, so why bother?
The very existence of the Westminster political Bubble has become unfit for purpose as all parties are essentially the same team in different shirts.
The problem we are facing is that the sentiment I expressed is widespread in the country; the people want the way we are being Governed to change radically, not simply to continue unchanged.
And their patience is running out.

 

[oldgroaner]

Here's someting interesting
"
Draconian Government threats to abolish the House of Lords if it held up Brexit have been dropped – despite peers’ defiance over EU citizens’ rights.

Instead, Downing Street praised the upper chamber for a “healthy and vigorous debate” after it inflicted Theresa May’s first defeat on the Article 50 Bill.

Last month, Government sources warned the Lords would be abolished if it attempted to “frustrate” the Bill, which the Commons had passed overwhelmingly."

So the obvious conclusion is that the Lords delivered exactly the right response that the Government wanted them to do.
Very interesting! they are building up a case where they can claim because of the difficulties others have raised a "Hard Brexit" will result.
This is an admission that they have accepted negotiations over terms are a sham.
That will save the lazy blighters having to work hard won't it?

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Express
"
‘We voted to become Britain again’ Question Time audience member HAILED for panel put-down
A QUESTION Time audience member received a rapturous applause after hitting back at claims Brexiteers didn’t know what they voted for.
He said he has no problem with foreign citizens living in the UK, but wants “England to look after it’s own first”.

He told the panel: “Im sick and tired of hearing politicians and everybody say that British people don’t know what we’ve voted for.
“We voted to get out of the single market, we voted to get out of the EU, and we voted to become Great Britain again and not part of Europe.”

Odd that no one on the panel asked the man
Who is actually going to ensure England looks after it's own first?
The Government that in his view doesn't, won't. and will remain in power after Brexit, as there is no opposition.
The Elephant in the room over Brexit is simply this: regardless of what the average Brexit voter wanted, no one has any intention of giving it to them.

He went on to say my wife is Russian, I live in a block of ten and eight of them are Foreigners and I get on with them OK.
So what does he actually want?
He will gain nothing from Brexit and lose in ways way beyond his rather simplistic views on society.
No one is going to ensure "Britain looks after it's own first are they" unless you are referring to the Elite of course.
And of course how do the public define those who are "Britains own?"

 

[Woosh]

Very interesting! they are building up a case where they can claim because of the difficulties others have raised a "Hard Brexit" will result.

I would have thought that Mrs May wanted to start with a low expectation, which is hard brexit. Refuse to pay a hefty bill, this sort of things.
Further negotiation after brexit will soften brexit.

 

[oldgroaner]

I would have thought that Mrs May wanted to start with a low expectation, which is hard brexit. Refuse to pay a hefty bill, this sort of things.
Further negotiation after brexit will soften brexit.

But it still will not provide what the Brexit voters want will it? they don't want a small change for either better or worse.
They want big changes to their advantage.
This won't happen for three reasons

1. The Government have no intention of improving the lives of the Public
2. Under the circumstances we will find ourselves after Brexit major change for the betterment of the Public is an impossibility'
3. Even if you change the Government the end result will be the same.

Brexit cannot achieve the level of change that is required to make this country the sort of place the Brexit voters are expecting, even at best it will remain pretty much the same, at worse catastrophically worse off.

Either way the 52% will be very much aggrieved and the 48% even more so!
There will be trouble as Trump would say "Bigly"

 

[Woosh]

But it still will not provide what the Brexit voters want will it?

they want to leave the EU. They are practically there.

 

[oldgroaner]

I still remember road signs in different shape, size, colour. You could instantly recognize in which country they were used. Now, roads, towns, cities look the same, people wear the same sort of clothes. Even restaurants get uniformized. Sad or I am too old?

Yes

 

[oldgroaner]

they want to leave the EU. They are practically there.

Refusing to see beyond that as you and they are is an error of the first magnitude.

 

[Woosh]

Refusing to see beyond that as you and they are is an error of the first magnitude.

Nothing to do with that.
This whole saga started with one simple question.
There is no way one can predict how long it will take to negotiate a new relationship with the EU but I think we can agree that it's more than 2 years.
Let's see this leaving the EU sorted then a future government will deal with the consequences.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

This whole saga started with one simple question.

That's the problem right there... people thought / still think it is / was a simple question. It wasn't.