Brexit, for once some facts.

tillson

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May 29, 2008
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I’m getting slightly concerned that a billionaire dwarf that no member of the public elected and, a comedian, turned president, might drag us into a war that nobody wants. I see Liz Truss is still around and dressing up in Margaret Thatcher’s old clothes too. A bit troubling.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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I’m getting slightly concerned that a billionaire dwarf that no member of the public elected and, a comedian, turned president, might drag us into a war that nobody wants. I see Liz Truss is still around and dressing up in Margaret Thatcher’s old clothes too. A bit troubling.
Not to mention the American geriatric who thinks he's a tough guy. It isn't our war and as ever we should stay out of it. From the beginning the West should have let Russia try to take Ukraine and suffer the consequences that brings.

Remember Chechnya, a tiny nation of just over 1% of Russia's population whose terrorism Russia could barely contain without huge losses. If by some miracle Russia did succeed in taking over Ukraine with 36% of Russia's population size, they would never be able contain it, it would bring them to their knees.

Putin isn't stupid, far from it and he knows that. His objective, as it was with Georgia, was only to teach them a harsh lesson. That being an enemy by being a NATO member would be very costly, hence the massive infrastructure damage to stand as long lasting proof of that.

All the West has achieved by ganging up with Ukraine is to ensure Russia will now never completely leave Ukraine out of pride alone. They are now making advances in Donbass that Ukraine cannot cope with hence the urgent requests from Zelenskyy for air power. And this is why British and American media have announced they have stopped updating maps of the war, they've been ordered not to show Ukraine is losing now.

This year or next, the war will end with a cease fire of sorts with Russia temporarily holding onto the land access to Crimea and Donbass permanently absorbed into Russia, now they've won it and most Ukrainians have fled from there.
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Woosh

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And this is why British and American media have announced they have stopped updating maps of the war, they've been ordered not to show Ukraine is losing now.
I think the map is pretty static in the winter, nothing to do with propaganda.
We know that Russian army tries to take Bakhmut but it will be at least another week before we know for sure which side is winning. With new tanks arriving everyday, the Ukrainians may well gain the upper hand.
The key thing is Ukrainians are also receiving new SAM systems from the West. I reckon they only have to shoot down about 50 Russian planes to clear their skies.
 
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flecc

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I think the map is pretty static in the winter, nothing to do with propaganda.
We know that Russian army tries to take Bakhmut but it will be at least another week before we know for sure which side is winning.
It's everything to do with propaganda, what they want you to believe, hence the updating ceasing. It was assumed both sides would be static due to winter, but Russia isn't playing ball and with the reinforcements have the upper hand now.

The key thing is Ukrainians are also receiving new SAM systems from the West.
Agreed, but this current ground war isn't about air defence. The reason Zelenskyy wants western warplanes is to attack and drive back Russian forces, but the West isn't falling for that escalation. The SAMs are their way to fob him off, a substitution.

Knowing neither Russia or Ukraine can give in, it's clear to me that the West wants and for world economic reasons desperately needs a ceasefire, so they are heading towards that end ASAP by preventing escalation. Russia knows it too, so they are throwing everything into securing the two oblasts of Donbass to be able to present that as a win to their public.

With greatly reduced numbers of Ukrainians left there now, Donbass will be much easier to hold after a cease fire, though it could end up in a South Ossetian/Taiwan style situation where both sides occasionally lob a few shells at each other to signify they haven't given in
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Woosh

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Knowing neither Russia or Ukraine can give in, it's clear to me that the West wants and for world economic reasons desperately needs a ceasefire, so they are heading towards that end ASAP by preventing escalation.
why do they want a ceasefire? The economy of the West does not suffer from the Ukraine war while Russian revenue from oil and gas come down substantially. Russia is more isolated than ever before.
High energy cost helps more than hinders, just watch the profit of energy companies and farmers.
 
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flecc

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The economy of the West does not suffer from the Ukraine war while Russian revenue from oil and gas come down substantially.
Tell that to all the suffering individuals paying the huge increase in costs. Tell it to all the nations suffering without the Russo-Ukrainian food supplies. That is the other side of Russia's falling revenues, severe hardship on our side.

why do they want a ceasefire?
The preceding paragraph is the answer, it's the peoples of the West and rest who are suffering, not Russia, How can falling revenues hurt Russia when they cannot spend them?

Russia is more isolated than ever before.
You really are falling for the propaganda, the reverse is the truth. Within Russia support has grown very strongly as th war drags on, widely acknowledged by western sources. None of the countries who have refused to condemn Russia have announced any change of mind and in some quarters their support has grown. That is particularly true where they are suffering from the war's consequences.

But it doesn't matter anyway, why should Russia care about isolation from half the world? Being perceived as the underdog against the overwhelming force of NATO and the West plays right into their hands, justifying their paranoia.

Western policy towards Russia has been incredibly stupid and short sighted, still on the same tack ever since the millennium, achieving an ever stronger and more dangerous East West split.
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Woosh

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Tell that to all the suffering individuals paying the huge increase in costs
inflation is bound to our exchange rate, even if gas price hadn't hit the roof, the Pound dropped from $1.30 before covid to near parity 1.08 when Liz Truss was PM explains a large part of inflation.
In France, energy price was capped at below 5% increase, the high borrowing still caused 6% inflation.
 
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flecc

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the Pound dropped from $1.30 before covid to near parity 1.08 when Liz Truss was PM explains a large part of inflation.
That's 17%. The public could have swallowed a 17 % increase in fuel costs, not the over 130%** they've suffered.

And individual food costs have increased far more than 17%, hidden by burying that in the overall inflation figure of 10.1% that mostly consists of irrelevancies.

Duck and dive all you like, it's we in the west who are suffering severely from the sanctions against Russia, not the Russians who have plenty of food and the world's lowest energy prices.

** My electricity cost increase for identical consumption.
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jonathan.agnew

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That's 17%. The public could have swallowed a 17 % increase in fuel costs, not the over 130%** they've suffered.

And individual food costs have increased far more than 17%, hidden by burying that in the overall inflation figure of 10.1% that mostly consists of irrelevancies.

Duck and dive all you like, it's we in the west who are suffering severely from the sanctions against Russia, not the Russians who have plenty of food and the world's lowest energy prices.

** My electricity cost increase for identical consumption.
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However, in an effort to stay out of the circular arguments around the war that become almost as inescapable and escalatory as the war - talk about parallel process, I'll say this. I oddly like the ascetic high inflation reality were in. Much the way I quite like the pandemic and post pandemic world. Naturally I wish the deaths in both could be avoided. But it stopped a mad consumerist roller coaster of work and spend. It made life more reflective, oddly meaningful. And, of course, it at least in part torpedoed brexit.
 
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Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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Southend on Sea
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That's 17%. The public could have swallowed a 17 % increase in fuel costs, not the over 130%** they've suffered.

And individual food costs have increased far more than 17%, hidden by burying that in the overall inflation figure of 10.1% that mostly consists of irrelevancies.

Duck and dive all you like, it's we in the west who are suffering severely from the sanctions against Russia, not the Russians who have plenty of food and the world's lowest energy prices.

** My electricity cost increase for identical consumption.
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household budget is not all energy based though.
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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household budget is not all energy based though.
Many homes, including mine, are very costly to heat, so energy cost now dominates a large proportion of household budgets. The cost of my sole fuel of electricity use to be 9.3% of total income but from April will be at least 20.6%.

Add a similar proportional increase in supermarket cost rises and it's obvious that many will be struggling to both keep warm and eat adequately.

Russians are doing fine in this respect as are others in that region. This from my sister in Bulgaria:

"We are all electric here. Like you we only heat the rooms we are in at the time. We have an oil filled radiator in the bedroom which goes on for an hour in the morning and a hour before bed but this is only because we don’t like sleeping in a hot room! An electric blanket on for an hour as well. The bathrooms have electric fan heaters - on when we’re in there. The living room convector heater is on all day and we swap to the wood burner around 5pm which is kept going 11ish. I have 2 calor gas heaters in the old house which contains our kitchen - again used when we’re in there. I also do a couple of washing machine loads weekly, have a fridge freezer and do a lot of oven cooking. My last monthly electric bill was £59 80! In addition we refill the gas cylinders every 6 weeks costing around £10 and, as you know, spent £135 on sunflower logs this year for the whole winter."

All that is in their huge country house where their latest annual council tax was £35 plus a charge for the well maintained road to their village of £44.50. My council tax in a tiny flat is £1203.

Her last month electricity £59.40. Mine £274.24.

Her refilling two 15 kg butane cylinders circa £10. Here that is well over £100.

Her concluding comment:

"So although I struggle with the language and understanding and the fact that this place is far too big to maintain now, if I was ever by myself here, I could live on my reduced UK State Pension. Impossible in the UK ".
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jonathan.agnew

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Dec 27, 2018
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I’m getting slightly concerned that a billionaire dwarf that no member of the public elected and, a comedian, turned president, might drag us into a war that nobody wants. I see Liz Truss is still around and dressing up in Margaret Thatcher’s old clothes too. A bit troubling.
I quite fancy the billionaire dwarf (in his utterly uncharismatic way he's been astonishingly effective at ploughing what's left of the torytanic into bergs), and truss (god. What can one say? Almost surreal, who'd think something exponentially more self destructive than the piglet would follow in its wake? And return for seconds to nuke the wardrobe our hero was clinging to). And the comedian and the war isn't, against all odds, providing a patriotic distraction. All in all the best of all possible worlds.
 
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MikelBikel

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Jun 6, 2017
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Fertiliser Tripled! This was *before* the "invasion" started, though sanctions already 'cutting off our noses to spite our faces'. Assault on European agriculture already in progress, and EU complicit with "anti-dumping" hike on top. Cartel are loving it, hint.
Funny that UK sanctions bill has "(EU Exit)" in the title? ;)
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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I oddly like the ascetic high inflation reality were in. Much the way I quite like the pandemic and post pandemic world. - - - - - it stopped a mad consumerist roller coaster of work and spend. It made life more reflective, oddly meaningful.
Which would be fine if we lived in a post consumerist green world where all countries were similarly affected and all accepting that is the new reality.

But of course there is no acceptance of that anywhere and the world is as unequal as ever. We are still living in a competitive world where countries need to show growth to survive economically, hence our continuing decline.
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jonathan.agnew

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Which would be fine if we lived in a post consumerist green world where all countries were similarly affected and all accepting that is the new reality.

But of course there is no acceptance of that anywhere and the world is as unequal as ever. We are still living in a competitive world where countries need to show growth to survive economically, hence our continuing decline.
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Ah yes, the post consumerist green world, "the end of history" as Francis fukuyama used to say (when I was a hairy adolescent who thought I knew anything). My money is on "the road" being a much more likely scenario in ten years. If not that it's becoming very clear that we will, like Albania, go cap in hand to the EU before then and accept whatever is on offer. How can I put it. I'm not saying this is the depressive position, but here goes: I was thinking the other day I need a new crank drive mtb, something around £5k. Then I thought about the early retirement budget and dug that old sound rohloff laced into a 26 wheel out of the back of the garage and started fitting it into the old but equally sound surprisingly light old kona hardtail Rationalising it will be more fun, give me more exercise (and more to the point NOT cost 5k). We will all have to adjust.
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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We will all have to adjust.
Perhaps not all, not for a very long time anyway. Yesterday as I drove out of my usual Sainsburys car park in a privileged area I was following another regular customer there. Myself driving in silence and comfort in my shiny black Nissan Leaf electric car, he and his wife in silence and comfort in their shiny black new Rolls Royce Phantom, registration number GB1. He bought that registration number in 2009 for £325,000, so his car and number combination at £600k+ cost over twenty times mine but gives little or no advantage over mine. It probably just prompts more onlookers to think "What a prat".

So where were we both on the scale of adjusting, going without? We are both eating Sainburys finest and driving in similar conditions, but I'd only spent a twentieth of his car outlay. Was I going without? Hardly. Was his profligacy a gross abuse? Who can say?

Truth is as ever, it's the least well off, the majority, who will be doing the adjusting, going without to keep the minority in privilege.
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jonathan.agnew

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Dec 27, 2018
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Perhaps not all, not for a very long time anyway. Yesterday as I drove out of my usual Sainsburys car park in a privileged area I was following another regular customer there. Myself driving in silence and comfort in my shiny black Nissan Leaf electric car, he and his wife in silence and comfort in their shiny black new Rolls Royce Phantom, registration number GB1. He bought that registration number in 2009 for £325,000, so his car and number combination at £600k+ cost over twenty times mine but gives little or no advantage over mine. It probably just prompts more onlookers to think "What a prat".

So where were we both on the scale of adjusting, going without? We are both eating Sainburys finest and driving in similar conditions, but I'd only spent a twentieth of his car outlay. Was I going without? Hardly. Was his profligacy a gross abuse? Who can say?

Truth is as ever, it's the least well off, the majority, who will be doing the adjusting, going without to keep the minority in privilege.
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Although there's a significant probability that the bloke affectionately fondling the tin of no name bake beans in the corroded ka behind both of you voted for this boris/brexit/truss infused financial disaster
Which gives me, frankly, about as much sympathy for him/her as any member of the taliban..
 
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tillson

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May 29, 2008
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Although there's a significant probability that the bloke affectionately fondling the tin of no name bake beans in the corroded ka behind both of you voted for this boris/brexit/truss infused financial disaster
Which gives me, frankly, about as much sympathy for him/her as any member of the taliban..
.... and I suspect they would vote for Boris Johnson again if he made a come-back. I think Johnson offers the best prospect of a Tory win at the next election. There is a lot of support and admiration for him. Mostly coming from the people that he shat on from the greatest height last time he was in office :D. You have to hand it to the bloke if he can pull that off.
 

jonathan.agnew

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.... and I suspect they would vote for Boris Johnson again if he made a come-back. I think Johnson offers the best prospect of a Tory win at the next election. There is a lot of support and admiration for him. Mostly coming from the people that he shat on from the greatest height last time he was in office :D. You have to hand it to the bloke if he can pull that off.
Or, indeed, for Truss. Most of the tory party membership supported her latest attempt to promote her "growth agenda". I'm not sure it would be to the piglet' credit (it has perhaps more to do with a very dim overindulgence electorate who has been fed a cultural diet of ethnic superiority for so long they've lost sight of their own utter inadequacy). However, I agree that they probably need more shatting on. And suffering. And I think the piglet has all the attributes to provide this.
 
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