At present there are probably 30,000 freezing starving Ukrainians in the two major cities under seige. The remaining 40,000,000 Ukrainians are hopping mad and angry with Russia. There possibly 150,000 freezing Russian lads camped for 2 weeks in the forests around the road. Not knowing where and what they are doing.Now if they don't get talking to their mammies , they get very demoralised, and if they do their mammies will be up in arms...and not with the Ukrainians but with the Kremlin.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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But as I posted more than once , if they isolate themselves almost entirely from the world economy, which they can do, their internalised economy won't be affected by the world's external one.
Anyway, this is getting very tiresome with me constantly having to repeat my replies. The moment this war started when everyone was waffling about Kiev I predicted very precisely with my hand drawn map changes what the Russian main objective would be and that has turned out to be exactly right. Securing the southern border to connect the Crimea directly to Russia through Donbass and shutting off Ukraine entirely from the Azov Sea.
Kiev only has symbolic importance which is why Russia can be patient there. Whatever the final outcome is, Russia will not let go of that southern border direct land link of Crimea to Russia.
So as I've posted several times to my critics, just be patient. I might not live long enough to see all this return to some form of normality, but I'm sure you will. I will however see the co-operation of the West and Russia continue for the ISS and the current scientific projects, no sanctions there.
Even many of the other sanction measures will be ineffectual as usual. The Americans stop buying oil from Russia, China buys it instead. Then the Americans will buy the oil China would have previously bought on the world market, shuffling supplies and all a bit pointless.
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I suspect though Flecc, as I said when Ukraine first kicked off. (a point you said was wrong) is this is going to run and run. It was a water shed moment. Rightly or wrongly the entire free world has had enough of both Putin and his regime. This will not stop until Putin is either dead or overthrown and all his underlings are put in their place. Representatives of Hague are saying very similar. Putin will face charges of war crimes, getting to that point could take years and either a prolonged war or a short sharp one destroying life as we know it.
In many ways Putin has destroyed his own legacy of military invincibility. He has lost thousands of men, hundreds of tanks etc etc, had four top commanders killed and has sacked 8 this morning, all against a military ranked around 24th in the world.
I suspect the very regime that put him in charge may turn against him, soon hopefully.
(24th was a guess, they are actually 29th)
Think I read other day Russians have lost as many men in 2 weeks as a years worth of fighting in Afghanistan.. A campaign they lost. Sheer utter madness on Putin's side.
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On another topic, the Met and Patel will be upset by this:
Met police breached rights of organisers of Sarah Everard vigil, court rules
Four women behind Reclaim These Streets brought challenge against Met over its handling of event
www.theguardian.com
Met police breached rights of organisers of Sarah Everard vigil, court rules
Four women behind Reclaim These Streets brought challenge against Met over its handling of event
Met police breached rights of organisers of Sarah Everard vigil, court rules
Reclaim These Streets welcomes judges’ decision as ‘a victory for women’ and calls for Met reform
www.theguardian.com
I agree on much of this, perhaps most, but its not all about Putin. He may not last, may be deposed or killed, but that still leaves the fundamental Russian situation regarding the security of their southern fleet which long predates Putin.
And still leaves Russian and Ukrainian stubborn pride at the root of the dispute. This will most likely be settled by negotiation in the end, not between those two but between the West (Americans) and Russia. If so, Ukraine will get what comes out of that.
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China is surrounded by many countries that host USA's weapon systems but they are not constantly in conflict with the West.
The idea that Russia without Putin will remain the same enemy of the West is hardly believable.
That situation is entirely different.
Both China and Russia will remain together, politically opposed to the West as I've posted, but not in active war.
Russia though will be the same enemy all the time the Americans maintain their phobic hatred of communism and anything hinting at real socialism.
Remember, it was that which caused the Americans to get rid of the entirely reasonable Gorbachov, simply because he remained a committed communist, albeit wanting to be a close friend with the West. No Putin even evident then, but still the enmity.
Instead of Gorbachov America gave us Putin, so who is the real villain?
Once again, there will never be peace until Europe detaches itself from the USA.
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Russia has been many things - stalinist, leninist etc. But never communist. Nor socialist. Cuba may have approached these, but not Russia, it has always been a mafia state that exploited its population mercilessly, for the benefit of an elite.
I hope that the governments involved have given some consideration to how they would handle the disappearance of Putin. (So long as the replacement isn't already known to be very similar.)
For example, willingness to hold almost immediate talks on de-escalation of sanctions so long as the Ukraine war stops. At least, putting out overtures and an olive branch.
But that doesn't matter while the USA believes they are communist, and they clearly do and have long done.
Just as Russia believes NATO is a threat, it doesn't matter if that isn't true. It only matters that Russia believes it.
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Many, many years ago, somehow a USA lass was around and seemed really friendly and nice to have around.
One day, someone mentioned "Russia" in a conversation, nothing significant - imagine referring to cold winters or an equally innocuous comment. She froze and said, almost shouted, "How dare you mention that place in front of me?" The over-the-topness was quite incredible.
As posted previously, Dmitry Medvedev is the natural successor. He's a liberal with good relations with Europeans. Not a soft touch though, he conducted the second Chechen war as President so capable of tough action when necessary.
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Shades of the McCarthyism that shocked us so much. The Americans are incapable of being reasonable towards any form of socialism, Trump being another good example.
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Framing what's happening at present as russophobia is a bit disingenuous. I'm no fan of boris Biden macron of any of the other corporate finger puppets, bu that pales into insignificance against what russia's doing
Which edition of the North Korean thesaurus are you using to understand the term "liberal"?
Afraid not (though I can think of words for the kind of psychopath who oversaw the mass murder of civilians in the chechen war)Can you think of any alternative words for "thesaurus"?
You are completely incapable of seeing anything other than your own extremist two dimentional bigoted view. I've made no reference to the Ukraine conflict in my comment on American attitudes to communism, it was a merely a response to oyster's post. That American attitude and the Ukraine conflict are two different subjects which can be discussed separately by reasonable people.
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None, and I have no personal experience of Dmitry Medvedev whatsoever. I simply quote what a number of European leaders have said of him, trusting that their judgment is reasonably good.
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the idea that the CIA gave Russians their President is over the top.