Brexit, for once some facts.

[oyster]

Britain said on Thursday it had imposed asset freezes on Russian businessmen Roman Abramovich, Igor Sechin, Oleg Deripaska and Dmitri Lebedev after they were added to the country’s sanctions list.

UK freezes assets of seven Russian oligarchs including Roman Abramovich

Others added to sanctions list are Igor Sechin, Oleg Deripaska, Andrey Kostin, Alexei Miller, Nikolai Tokarev and Dmitri Lebedev

www.theguardian.com

If Johnson were capable of embarrassment and decency, he should be sanctioning himself along with his good mate Lebedev.

 

[flecc]

China will replace Russia in this role soon enough after Putin's gone.

My "on the other side" meant Russia with China. They have the same common purpose for the future and what has happened between them in the last 20 years means that is cast.

As one of the think tank people said in relation to a question about the relationship, "When push comes to shove, China will be with Moscow".

Interesting side note on the policy of hearts and minds that both are following (Yes, even Russia). When the UN had a vote to condemn Russia's current action in Ukraine, only three African nations voted for it . Eighteen African nations refused to.

Explaining this, an African woman political commentator said the Africans see Russia as their protection against the West. That puts a whole new light on how we are all seen around the world.
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[oyster]

Autovaz, the Lada car manufacturers make a Lada supercar now:

But not now - for a while.

Iconic Russian Car Maker, Known for Cold War Self-Reliance, Halts Production
Disruption shows how Russia’s economy is beginning to feel the bite of Western sanctions

Iconic Russian Car Maker, Known for Cold War Self-Reliance, Halts Production

The disruption at Lada shows how Russia’s economy is beginning to feel the bite of sanctions the West imposed on Moscow after President Vladimir Putin decided to invade Ukraine.

www.wsj.com

 

[oyster]

China, or at least - Chinese phone makers, likely not very happy:

Xiaomi, Oppo and Huawei cut smartphone shipments to Russia as rouble collapses. Since Russia began its full-scale invasion of Ukraine on Feb. 24, shipments from leading Chinese smartphone producers have fallen by at least half, people familiar with the matter told the Financial Times.

 

[Woosh]

As one of the think tank people said in relation to a question about the relationship, "When push comes to shove, China will be with Moscow".

I can understand that to some extent.
I don't rank the Chinese one party state system higher than greedy capitalism and believe that on the long run though, there will be convergence between East and West.

 

[Zlatan]

Russian banks turning to deal and offer accounts in yuan. (Chinese currency)
Putin will be popular, Russian currency becoming worthless. Not a good sign in some respects. Rampant inflation and collapse of German currency spawned Hitler.
Chinese authority certainly isn't the benign character some paint. They are committing just as many human rights violations as Putin. But smiling Xi seems to brush it all off.

 

[Zlatan]

China, or at least - Chinese phone makers, likely not very happy:

Xiaomi, Oppo and Huawei cut smartphone shipments to Russia as rouble collapses. Since Russia began its full-scale invasion of Ukraine on Feb. 24, shipments from leading Chinese smartphone producers have fallen by at least half, people familiar with the matter told the Financial Times.

That could be purely financial. Russia are renaging on many debts now. China are walking a clever line, are they backing West or Putin. Nobody actually knows yet.

 

[flecc]

I can understand that to some extent.
I don't rank the Chinese one party state system higher than greedy capitalism and believe that on the long run though, there will be convergence between East and West.

That is the Chinese and Russian plan as Xi Jinping explained at great length, but all as single party communist countries.

There will never be convergence while the USA is a part of the West. Their intense and obsessive hatred of communism, indeed any hint of socialism, will make convergence impossible.
.

 

[Zlatan]

I can understand that to some extent.
I don't rank the Chinese one party state system higher than greedy capitalism and believe that on the long run though, there will be convergence between East and West.

China are King's of Capitalism now. Took the ball and ran with it. Sort of state centred mega investment. I believe their use of capital took more folk out of poverty in 20 years than rest of world did ever. But it doesn't justify their treatment of many groups.

 

[flecc]

But not now - for a while.

Iconic Russian Car Maker, Known for Cold War Self-Reliance, Halts Production
Disruption shows how Russia’s economy is beginning to feel the bite of Western sanctions

Iconic Russian Car Maker, Known for Cold War Self-Reliance, Halts Production

The disruption at Lada shows how Russia’s economy is beginning to feel the bite of sanctions the West imposed on Moscow after President Vladimir Putin decided to invade Ukraine.

www.wsj.com

Of course, they have to. Their range shares major components with Renault models and they cannot get those now. They'll have to do a Cuba and make what they've got last a long time if necessary. Cuba's managed that for 60 years, so if they can Russia very definitely can. Owners will get supplies of those parts through China no doubt, there's always someone willing to make a buck.

Car makers share parts everywhere, ours are very dependent on parts from mainland Europe
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[oyster]

That could be purely financial. Russia are renaging on many debts now. China are walking a clever line, are they backing West or Putin. Nobody actually knows yet.

If I were a citizen of Russia and lived there, a new phone would have become a distress purchase - certainly not a lifestyle upgrade, as they have been seen in a large part of the world for quite a number of years.

 

[flecc]

But it doesn't justify their treatment of many groups.

It's never justified, but necessary to their kind of one party, one policy system control. That cannot be shared with another form of control, such as that of Islam's Sharia law.

They don't see it as evil, in their view people should either be good citizens and co-operate, or leave. They don't stop anyone from leaving China. It's all part of Oriental discipline, no different in Japan in fact.
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[flecc]

If I were a citizen of Russia and lived there, a new phone would have become a distress purchase - certainly not a lifestyle upgrade, as they have been seen in a large part of the world for quite a number of years.

Nobody really needs a smartphone, a simple mobile phone of the Nokia sort we had in the 2000s is sufficient, and Russia can make those for itself.

I'm still using my Nokia 1112 from 2006 as my emergency phone when travelling.
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[Zlatan]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide#:~:text=Government%20policies%20have%20included%20the,forced%20contraception%2C%20and%20forced%20abortion

.

Seems Wicki doesn't agree Flecc. Good job Boris or Starmer don't try same.

 

[oyster]

Nobody really needs a smartphone, a simple mobile phone of the Nokia sort we had in the 2000s is sufficient, and Russia can make those for itself.

I'm still using my Nokia 1112 from 2006 as my emergency phone when travelling.
.

From what I have read, a smartphone is pretty much essential in Russia. Many services seem to be exclusively only and accessible only via apps. Such as (some) banking. (Though if you have drawn all your money out, that might not be so important. )

That is also where we are headed. Seems Virgin Money have made at least some of their basic services pretty much mobile phone app only - without informing their customers first.

 

[flecc]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide#:~:text=Government%20policies%20have%20included%20the,forced%20contraception%2C%20and%20forced%20abortion

.

Seems Wicki doesn't agree Flecc. Good job Boris or Starmer don't try same.

I don't need Wikipedia, they are late to the party. I know what is happening there and its background. It's as I said, Islam cannot be practiced there, that is all there is to it.

The Uyghurs persist, so what's happening is the result.

The Islamic Tartars suffered the same discrimination in Orthodox Russia in the 18th and 19th centuries, so they left Russia over time, solving the problem for both.

These things are never fair, but they are the reality and the reality is what we all need to live in, accommodating where necessary.
.

 

[flecc]

From what I have read, a smartphone is pretty much essential in Russia. Many services seem to be exclusively only and accessible only via apps. Such as (some) banking. (Though if you have drawn all your money out, that might not be so important. )

That is also where we are headed. Seems Virgin Money have made at least some of their basic services pretty much mobile phone app only - without informing their customers first.

I've already covered that in a previous post. Russia is now out of the international banking system so now needs to convert to isolation. Temporarily that can be simple paper money, ATMs are only a convenience, not an essential. The same for Smartphones, that system easily switched to computers which are what the Russians have in abundance.

All these posts about the things the Russians will miss are an indication of just how soft the West has become. The Russians won't be seriously inconvenienced by isolation. They are essentially a self supporting nation of plenty.
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[Woosh]

The Russians won't be seriously inconvenienced by isolation. They are essentially a self supporting nation of plenty.

I doubt that.
The first McDonald's in Moscow opened in 1990. A lot have changed since.
Sanctions will put back years of economic progress.
I watch Lavrov's interview this morning.
He complained about the West filling Ukrainian heads with new ideas, presumably un-Russian, in the last 10 years.
If Ukrainians have to choose, being a refugee in the West or live in Ukraine under the Russian administration, is there any wonder that they would rather vote with their feet?

 

[flecc]

I doubt that.
The first McDonald's in Moscow opened in 1990. A lot have changed since.
Sanctions will put back years of economic progress.

These things dont matter. Can't get a McDonalds in a country that can easily feed itself two or three times over? How terrible!

And that economic progress you speak of is Western style. They no longer need it. Isolated as they are being now, they can have their own self contained economy, totally detached from the West if they wish using only their own currency internally.

They are a naturally wealthy country with an abundance of water, food, energy sources and minerals. That signals very clearly why it is we in the West who will suffer more from the measures, since few of our countries are in anything like such a good position.
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[snafu]

All these posts about the things the Russians will miss are an indication of just how soft the West has become. The Russians won't be seriously inconvenienced by isolation. They are essentially a self supporting nation of plenty.
.

I'm not sure I go along with that reasoning.

If you had changed 1 word in that statement - Russians -> Russia, I would generally agree but many Russians have no experience of the old regime. The company I work for has plants in Russia (Now closed) and many of the teams I have dealt with there appear have embraced modern social values and technology as much as anyone.

So, I agree Russia may not be seriously inconvenienced to the extent it is thought but for sure the Russian people will suffer considerably in the coming months. I'm sad about that as in many cases they are as bewildered by all of this as we are.

TTFN
John.