Brexit, for once some facts.

Danidl

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This isn't destroying the Russian war machine, it's strengthening Russian resolve. I repeat:

"The longer the struggle goes on, the more the Russian Duma and people will come round to his (Putin's) view that Ukraine and the West are the threat."
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What would strengthen Russian resolve would be attacks by the West on Russian soil. I would expect the Russians to be as patriotic on their homeland as the Ukraine
 
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soundwave

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May 23, 2015
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What would strengthen Russian resolve would be attacks by the West on Russian soil. I would expect the Russians to be as patriotic on their homeland as the Ukraine
we should blow up the moon :p

 
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guerney

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I am not the sharpest diagnostician in the box, but I did notice the puffy face, and remarked on it at the time
Are his mates trying to cheer him up? "Make lovski, not warski comrade" - he'll be putin it in tonight! Is he trying to hold in farts? Bowel cancer can spread through soft tissue very rapidly, and colostomy bags stink, hence flowers? Or it could simply be long covid. A terminally ill enemy with nukes would indeed be dangerous, tempted to take us all to oblivion with him

 
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guerney

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we should blow up the moon :p

Blowing up the moon really was discussed by the US as a serious possibility, to scare the gubbins out of the USSR
 
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guerney

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@oldgroaner I do hope that's your passport photo! It's a good portrait. Was the falloff done in post or through clever use of flash?
 
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guerney

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Russia doesn't have the demographic for long conventional wars - not enough cannon fodder of fighting age. The many Brexiter equivalent older Russians yearn for the old days: a powerful USSR
 
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Woosh

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I would like to think Putin will fail, but I think his determination to avoid that could incur incalculable human cost, whatever the outcome.
Putin can't fail unless the West is willing to stop him.
 

Woosh

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The Ukraine's attitude is "dog in the manger". The dry desert like Crimea is no use to them and their dominant agriculture. Donbass is no use to them because the population are at war with them. Yet they want to possess them in name only merely out of misplaced pride. Those two are very small and Ukraine is the second largest country in Europe and would remain so after giving them up, so what is the point of wasting so many lives for no material gain and a continuing civil war with Donbass?
the point is we want to live in a civilised world where the only war is the one that wipes us all out, the very proof that we are not civilised enough.
Putin must not succeed in making an estimated 15% of Ukrainians refugees.
I am sure you see that as a crime against humanity.
Think about it. Rebuilding a town by its residents is a much easier task compared to rebuilding the same when most of its able bodied residents have already left.
 
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oldgroaner

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This isn't destroying the Russian war machine, it's strengthening Russian resolve. I repeat:

"The longer the struggle goes on, the more the Russian Duma and people will come round to his (Putin's) view that Ukraine and the West are the threat."
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"I have in my hand a piece of paper guaranteeing peace in our time."

Appeasement of rabid dictators only has one outcome
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Putin must not succeed in making an estimated 15% of Ukrainians refugees.
I am sure you see that as a crime against humanity.
Of course I do, I appear to be the only one in here who wanted to stop any chance of the war happening. Most of you seem determinedly wanting to risk WW3 and its potentially horrifying consequences

I'm certainly the only one in here who knows that the basis of this war was created by the USA in 2004. From the overthrow of Iran's democratic government and the theft of Palestine, both in 1948, through to this Ukraine war, the USA has brought us nothing but continuing strife and carnage, all in the name of their wanting to dominate the world in an empire of the mind, their far right wing republican mind.

I say again, until Europe detaches itself from the USA and isolates it, there will never be any chance of peace.
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oyster

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Of course I do, I appear to be the only one in here who wanted to stop any chance of the war happening. Most of you seem determinedly wanting to risk WW3 and its potentially horrifying consequences

I'm certainly the only one in here who knows that the basis of this war was created by the USA in 2004. From the overthrow of Iran's democratic government and the theft of Palestine, both in 1948, through to this Ukraine war, the USA has brought us nothing but continuing strife and carnage, all in the name of their wanting to dominate the world in an empire of the mind, their far right wing republican mind.

I say again, until Europe detaches itself from the USA and isolates it, there will never be any chance of peace.
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I blame Gogol and Taras Bulba.
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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I blame Gogol and Taras Bulba.
I'm afraid my excellent long term memory doesn't extend to the 16th century. I'm only familiar with the rhapsody of that latter name by Czech composer Leoš Janáček, his most famous work.
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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I am not the sharpest diagnostician in the box, but I did notice the puffy face, and remarked on it at the time
Agreed, and why I remarked in a recent post that almost 70 year old Putin won't be around much longer.

The last person I saw with that changed facial appearance was dead within months.
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Woosh

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Of course I do, I appear to be the only one in here who wanted to stop any chance of the war happening. Most of you seem determinedly wanting to risk WW3 and its potentially horrifying consequences
Putin threatens the West casually with nuclear war, especially with smaller yield weapons. We never did the same to him.
When the people of Russia see that their real security is under threat, I am pretty sure that a vast number of Russians can see the folly of Putin for what it really is.
 
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Danidl

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"Of course I do, I appear to be the only one in here who wanted to stop any chance of the war happening. Most of you seem determinedly wanting to risk WW3 and its potentially horrifying consequences"
.. Maybe the time to have stopped this was in 2014. The progression beyond that was Putins. I did think that both UK and USA were warmongering in the Christmas period ..and freely admit I was wrong Germany and Italy were strongly of the make up trade not war camp. It was only after Putin extended the "excerises" that I realised ut was going to happen, and I was certain then when the legal figleaf charade was enacted.
We cannot stop WW3 , but we can hasten And allowing British "volunteers" or indeed any NATO countries volunteers to fight gives Putin the causa belli..
We already had the horrific event of shelling on a nuclear power plant. Had that failed, ..say a shell into the cooling pond or the control room , the ability of Ukraine to produce grain for the next 30 years would be compromised.
 
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flecc

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When the people of Russia see that their real security is under threat, I am pretty sure that a vast number of Russians can see the folly of Putin for what it really is.
That would be good, but I fear it's day dreaming. Even some western assessments give Putin 65 to 70% support among the population and half the population regret the passing of communism. Statista

Currently there's two way opinion on this, the clearly anti Putin Russian elements saying his support has collapsed which is clearly untrue. Polls showing his support surging are also warped, as are western Vox Pops on the streets. As always in war, the first casualty is the truth.
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flecc

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.. Maybe the time to have stopped this was in 2014. The progression beyond that was Putins. I did think that both UK and USA were warmongering in the Christmas period ..and freely admit I was wrong Germany and Italy were strongly of the make up trade not war camp.
As my posts clearly explain, recognition of Russia's need regarding land access to the Crimea that he'd taken control of could very easily have stopped all the subsequent undesirable events and ended the Donbass civil war as a bonus.

Neither the West nor Russia or either of the two local sides needed to have lost face or suffered any material loss. Simple neighbourlyness could have created all round gain.

Instead the same idiotic pride, aggression and backward thinking so evident in this thread held sway, resulting in all the ills of Ukraine since.
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