Brexit, for once some facts.

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290

How can anybody celebrate this whilst people who wanted out (including British Nationals) are still stuck there. On news reports tonight of a 7 month old baby not allowed out but parents were... Then 150 Greyhounds and such sat in plane hold. Makes no sense to me.
 

jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
2,400
3,381

How can anybody celebrate this whilst people who wanted out (including British Nationals) are still stuck there. On news reports tonight of a 7 month old baby not allowed out but parents were... Then 150 Greyhounds and such sat in plane hold. Makes no sense to me.
Weird weird world. Oddly the parody of a nation rising to the defence of geronimo the llama with tb but remaining stum about all the females in afghanistan losing the right to be educated seem wrong, but appropriate in the hypocritical reality were in.
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
Do you think he is going to see Mahatma Gandhi in order to discuss partition?


In response to claims that he had been slow to grasp the scale of the crisis, including by leaving on holiday at a critical time, Raab revealed he was travelling to the region including Pakistan on Wednesday evening. He will first go to Doha in Qatar, where the Taliban have an office.
 
  • :D
Reactions: oldgroaner

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
Weird weird world. Oddly the parody of a nation rising to the defence of geronimo the llama with tb but remaining stum about all the females in afghanistan losing the right to be educated seem wrong, but appropriate in the hypocritical reality were in.
And eating pigs, cows, chickens in their thousands but one Lama???
World has gone mad.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
And eating pigs, cows, chickens in their thousands but one Lama???
World has gone mad.
On the plus side since " the world has gone mad", at least it isn't just me!

Be careful what we wish for, for if we don't eat them..
How long before Cannibalism is promoted as an environmentally friendly way of saving the planet? :cool:
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
Weird weird world. Oddly the parody of a nation rising to the defence of geronimo the llama with tb but remaining stum about all the females in afghanistan losing the right to be educated seem wrong, but appropriate in the hypocritical reality were in.
It's appalling but not sure what we can do about it. Can't invade place, that has been proven time and time again. I, m sure the trillions spent could have been used more effectively tho, by a more subtle approach but who knows. Should we merely stand by whilst other countries go about their business or make judgment calls and exert our, assumed higher, moral codes on them. We seem to be leaving China to do what it wants but West tried to steer Afghanistan to the righteous path... By killing thousands.. Think there is a moral contradiction in there somewhere. But which is right. I haven't a clue.
Suspect the last 20 years has been more about reprisal for 911 rather than altruistic moral reasons.
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
It's appalling but not sure what we can do about it. Can't invade place, that has been proven time and time again. I, m sure the trillions spent could have been used more effectively tho, by a more subtle approach but who knows. Should we merely stand by whilst other countries go about their business or make judgment calls and exert our, assumed higher, moral codes on them. We seem to be leaving China to do what it wants but West tried to steer Afghanistan to the righteous path... By killing thousands.. Think there is a moral contradiction in there somewhere. But which is right. I haven't a clue.
Suspect the last 20 years has been more about reprisal for 911 rather than altruistic moral reasons.
I suspect the Chinese are correct in their approach. The West did not kill thousands in Afghanistan ..it was Hundreds of thousands.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
It's appalling but not sure what we can do about it. Can't invade place, that has been proven time and time again. I, m sure the trillions spent could have been used more effectively tho, by a more subtle approach but who knows. Should we merely stand by whilst other countries go about their business or make judgment calls and exert our, assumed higher, moral codes on them. We seem to be leaving China to do what it wants but West tried to steer Afghanistan to the righteous path... By killing thousands.. Think there is a moral contradiction in there somewhere. But which is right. I haven't a clue.
Suspect the last 20 years has been more about reprisal for 911 rather than altruistic moral reasons.
"Should we merely stand by whilst other countries go about their business?"

Emphatically YES.

"We seem to be leaving China to do what it wants."

As we definitely should.

I believe as Danidl posted, "I suspect the Chinese are correct in their approach."

The One Party democracy actually works better than our Western democracy models.
.
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
I suspect the Chinese are correct in their approach. The West did not kill thousands in Afghanistan ..it was Hundreds of thousands.
Being pedantic, thousands is still hundreds of thousands,but accept the point.
And neither of us has an answer. You raised issue about plight of females in Afghanistan yet also suggest interference is wrong.
Perhaps female Afgans should raise issue with ECJ to discuss.
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
"Should we merely stand by whilst other countries go about their business?"

Emphatically YES.

"We seem to be leaving China to do what it wants."

As we definitely should.

I believe as Danidl posted, "I suspect the Chinese are correct in their approach."

The One Party democracy actually works better than our Western democracy models.
.
Some might disagree Flecc.
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
I suspect the Chinese are correct in their approach. The West did not kill thousands in Afghanistan ..it was Hundreds of thousands.
Says someone enjoying all the freedoms of Western culture and governance.
 

jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
2,400
3,381
So
So do I Flecc.
And I occasionally suffer a stammer. Apparently.
Much as I can relate to both of your convictions about being right, it's probably worth pointing out that it's the kind of fundamentalism that can trigger wars and lengthy foreign invasions.
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
Says someone enjoying all the freedoms of Western culture and governance.
That is fair comment , but then I have not advocated the Singapore method of governance, or the USAs or the UKs .. A colleague of mine, a once senior academic in EAST GERMANY when it was DDR, had scathing comments about the New Germany post reunification Now I do wonder how a brow beaten black woman in a getto in Washington , would respond to living in Beijing and sure of adaquate health care and full food and impartial policing.
The fact of the matter is that US involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq has fuelled poverty , corruption and was not popular. Had their actions been popular, Taliban would not have succeeded. Regime Change was either a con or a fantasy. The Chinese are not pretending they are doing anything other than trade.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
Much as I can relate to both of your convictions about being right, it's probably worth pointing out that it's the kind of fundamentalism that can trigger wars and lengthy foreign invasions.
Sorry, but you are off beam here with me. Although I express a view on political and religious matters and often firmly stick to it, I'll never back enforcing it.

Simply because any attempt at enforcing validates others forcing their view.
.
 

Advertisers