Brexit, for once some facts.

Zlatan

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That is fair comment , but then I have not advocated the Singapore method of governance, or the USAs or the UKs .. A colleague of mine, a once senior academic in EAST GERMANY when it was DDR, had scathing comments about the New Germany post reunification Now I do wonder how a brow beaten black woman in a getto in Washington , would respond to living in Beijing and sure of adaquate health care and full food and impartial policing.
The fact of the matter is that US involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq has fuelled poverty , corruption and was not popular. Had their actions been popular, Taliban would not have succeeded. Regime Change was either a con or a fantasy. The Chinese are not pretending they are doing anything other than trade.
I don't believe any of us have actually advocated any governance system over an other. The simple fact is none are ideal, all far from perfect but some much further than others. I strongly believe ours benefits individuals and their freedoms much more than the ones you are extolling. Agreed, we don't really know what it's like yo live under Taliban, Chinise communism or Vietnamese democracy,but I, d hazard a guess we do enjoy freedoms way beyond any of those.
Yep, our system stinks, and our particular version of it at moment stinks worse than normal but would I swap it for China?, No, I would not. Perhaps you would, unless of course your beliefs require some re-education. Are really pushing a system that openly states parts of its own culture require re-eduction, resettlement and cultural relignment? I suspect not.
 
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Woosh

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I, m sure the trillions spent could have been used more effectively tho, by a more subtle approach but who knows.
the problem is we untruthfully deny that corruption exists in our Western world.
The principle of spending money on the war against terrorism is good but when it comes to actual spending, those who can spend money on political lobbying will get the money.
 

Zlatan

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the problem is we untruthfully deny that corruption exists in our Western world.
The principle of spending money on the war against terrorism is good but when it comes to actual spending, those who can spend money on political lobbying will get the money.
I, m not convinced spending money on a war against terrorism is such a good thing,with or without corruption. Wouldn't we have been better buying good will rather than demanding it with violence. Not suggesting turning other cheek but surely with trillions of dollars available there are other ways besides shooting people.
 

Danidl

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I, m not convinced spending money on a war against terrorism is such a good thing,with or without corruption. Wouldn't we have been better buying good will rather than demanding it with violence. Not suggesting turning other cheek but surely with trillions of dollars available there are other ways besides shooting people.
..and that in a nutshell is the Chinese approach to the Occidental world.
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Are really pushing a system that openly states parts of its own culture require re-eduction, resettlement and cultural relignment?
You are clearly referring to the Uyghur minority in Xijiang province. I don't push the system that the Chinese government are using to change this minority, but with my knowledge of Chinese dynasties through the ages I support them doing that. Many of those dynasty administrations have given the people peaceful and afluent lives relative to the times, but time after time they have been overrun by hordes, suffering terribly as a result. That has even continued into modern times when they were overrun by the Japanese who committed appalling atrocities against them.

Today out of communism China has created a system of one party democracy that has made the Chinese people better off in every respect from any life they ever led before. They have the freedom to become very rich, the freedom to reject that and stay traditionally rural, the freedom to move anywhere in the world that permits their entry, the freedom to practice any religion that does not directly threaten the state, the freedom to be a party member and form its policies, just as the current leader Xi Jinping did from humble beginnings living in a cave.

But Xi and his party are rightly determined that they will never suffer again being overrun and abused as they have been so many times in the past. According they act against any existing threat of a growth to that recurring and of course the prime threat is Islamic fundamentalism, such as that existing among the Uyghur people of Xijiang province and some others to lesser degrees.

Russia historically faced a similar Islamic threat to its Czarist regime from its Muslim Tartar people who resided in a few regions including Crimea. But that was solved by Russia's 18th and 19th century actions making Tartar life uncomfortable enough for the Tartar people to largely migrate abroad and eventually die out in Russia.

The Uyghers have the same ability since China allows anyone to emigrate, so they have the option to either work with the state as good citizens with all the advantages that brings, or emigrate for an Islamic fundamentalist future life if that's what they prefer.
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Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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You are clearly referring to the Uyghur minority in Xijiang province. I don't push the system that the Chinese government are using to change this minority, but with my knowledge of Chinese dynasties through the ages I support them doing that. Many of those dynasty administrations have given the people peaceful and afluent lives relative to the times, but time after time they have been overrun by hordes, suffering terribly as a result. That has even continued into modern times when they were overrun by the Japanese who committed appalling atrocities against them.

Today out of communism China has created a system of one party democracy that has made the Chinese people better off in every respect from any life they ever led before. They have the freedom to become very rich, the freedom to reject that and stay traditionally rural, the freedom to move anywhere in the world that permits their entry, the freedom to practice any religion that does not directly threaten the state, the freedom to be a party member and form its policies, just as the current leader Xi Jinping did from humble beginnings living in a cave.

But Xi and his party are rightly determined that they will never suffer again being overrun and abused as they have been so many times in the past. According they act against any existing threat of a growth to that recurring and of course the prime threat is Islamic fundamentalism, such as that existing among the Uyghur people of Xijiang province and some others to lesser degrees.

Russia historically faced a similar Islamic threat to its Czarist regime from its Muslim Tartar people who resided in a few regions including Crimea. But that was solved by Russia's 18th and 19th century actions making Tartar life uncomfortable enough for the Tartar people to largely migrate abroad and eventually die out in Russia.

The Uyghers have the same ability since China allows anyone to emigrate, so they have the option to either work with the state as good citizens with all the advantages that brings, or emigrate for an Islamic fundamentalist future life if that's what they prefer.
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Meant with the greatest respect Flecc and for admirable qualities we all see in you, you really should be a politician or diplomat...
 
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flecc

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Meant with the greatest respect Flecc and for admirable qualities we all see in you, you really should be a politician or diplomat...
You are far from the first to have said that. If we are to live in peace with all the world's peoples, being both politician and diplomat are essential.
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oldgroaner

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You are far from the first to have said that. If we are to live in peace with all the world's peoples, being both politician and diplomat are essential.
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The last chap that tried that ended up being hammered with tacks at Easter in Jerusalem
 

oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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Is there a lot of CO in classrooms then?
No - but there could be quite a bit of O3.

There have been plans in Wales to use an ozone generator in schools. Run it for a while in a closed room. The ozone should disinfect effectively. Then the device sucks the ozone back in and converts it to O2. Leaving the room nice and safe.

But lots of people are questioning safety. Not sure what the current state of play is....
 

oyster

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The doctrine of collective responsibility as it applies to the current UK cabinet:

Afghanistan: Raab hits back as Wallace says he knew ‘game was up’ in July

While Johnson skips to Somerset.
 

oldgroaner

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No, he was neither politician or diplomat, as declaring himself the son of their God among the Hebrew people showed.

More a nut case.
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Sort of Comedy Noir equivalent of Johnson declaring himself the God of Brexit.
Perhaps another Easter crowd spectacle is on the cards? :cool:
 
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