Brexit, for once some facts.

[Danidl]

This part is the same in the UK, but TV's in second properties also have to have a licence.

The only exception is a full time student in residence away from home who can enjoy the cover of the licence in their family's home for their own TV.
.

According to some of the websites and fora, that part is somewhat obscure. There are claims made that if you don't actually view broadcasts , no fee is applicable .. and with TVs being used as computer monitors.
Incidentally the worst TV licence defaulters were Northern Ireland . There was no chance that a Post Office inspector would go door to door, .. it would have been a real death sentence.

 

[flecc]

There are claims made that if you don't actually view broadcasts , no fee is applicable .. and with TVs being used as computer monitors.

The law is very clear and those claims are untrue**. It's been made clear on a number of occasions that if an "apparatus" is capable of receiving, it has to be licenced whether used or not. The claimants are relying of a later clarification that it only applies if the set is ever used to receive any TV program, but how can one prove that it's never even once been used in that way?

Enforcement is a different matter of course, especially since the loss of analogue TV sets in favour of digital which don't emit the same tell-tale signals.

** It's what I call wishful thinking law. We also suffer it in here, members posting what they think the pedelec law should be as fact.
.

 

[Danidl]

The law is very clear and those claims are untrue**. It's been made clear on a number of occasions that if an "apparatus" is capable of receiving, it has to be licenced whether used or not. The claimants are relying of a later clarification that it only applies if the set is ever used to receive any TV program, but how can one prove that it's never even once been used in that way?

Enforcement is a different matter of course, especially since the loss of analogue TV sets in favour of digital which don't emit the same tell-tale signals.

** It's what I call wishful thinking law. We also suffer it in here, members posting what they think the pedelec law should be as fact.
.

Look this is very much a side issue, but even leaving that loophole is pernicious. The PO has to prove it was used , rather than the claimant proving it has not. In an analogous way, I have probably 2 dozen knives in my house, I cannot prove that none was ever used to commit an illegal act.
The Irish and French Law is simple. If the apparatus has the ability to display broadcasted images , it requires a licence. The French are extremely explicit and describe all the classes of devices .. TVs, VCRs Tuner sticks,Settop boxes, satellite boxes, computers with network capability or cable boxes . The existence of anyone of these in a property on 1st January requires a yearly licence. You must also sign a declaration every year , stating that it was not in the premises . The tax is appended to the property tax, and paid to the normal tax authorities.
The only potential grey area would be an obsolete Analogue TV without a set top companion as it has no capacity .

 

[oyster]

Look this is very much a side issue, but even leaving that loophole is pernicious. The PO has to prove it was used , rather than the claimant proving it has not. In an analogous way, I have probably 2 dozen knives in my house, I cannot prove that none was ever used to commit an illegal act.
The Irish and French Law is simple. If the apparatus has the ability to display broadcasted images , it requires a licence. The French are extremely explicit and describe all the classes of devices .. TVs, VCRs Tuner sticks,Settop boxes, satellite boxes, computers with network capability or cable boxes . The existence of anyone of these in a property on 1st January requires a yearly licence. You must also sign a declaration every year , stating that it was not in the premises . The tax is appended to the property tax, and paid to the normal tax authorities.
The only potential grey area would be an obsolete Analogue TV without a set top companion as it has no capacity .

Do they have any exemption for a blind person living on their own? (Obviously, if they live with non-blind, then there is an argument the non-blind need to pay.)

 

[flecc]

Look this is very much a side issue, but even leaving that loophole is pernicious. The PO has to prove it was used

It's not that simple though:

A TV Licence is a legal permission to install or use television receiving equipment to watch or record television programmes as they are being shown on TV or live on an online TV service, and to download or watch BBC programmes on demand, including catch up TV, on BBC iPlayer. This could be on any device, including TVs, desktop computers, laptops, mobile phones, tablets, games consoles, digital boxes, DVD, Blu-ray and VHS recorders. This applies regardless of which television channels a person receives or how those channels are received. The licence fee is not a payment for BBC services (or any other television service), although licence fee revenue is used to fund the BBC.

Not the wording "install or use", the inclusion of "or" being crucial, implying installation alone is a preparation for watching at some time so is licenceable. The law itself also includes that "or":

Section 363 of the Communications Act 2003 makes it an offence to install or use a television receiver to watch or record any television programmes as they’re being shown on television without a TV Licence.

The Post Office are no longer involved. Since 1991, the BBC, in its role as the relevant licensing authority, has been responsible for collecting and enforcing the TV Licence fee. The BBC contracts companies to do this work under the BBC trade mark ‘TV Licensing’. The BBC (and contractors acting on its behalf) must comply with the law in collecting and enforcing the licence fee. The BBC Charter further requires that these arrangements be appropriate, proportionate and efficient.

In practice anyone appearing before magistrates for this licence offence is usually fined if they cannot prove they haven't received, yet another instance of the theory of innocent until proven guilty not being followed:

TV Licensing published figures showing that almost 400,000 people were caught without a licence across the UK in 2010.

More than 50,000 were caught in Greater London, more than 21,000 in Glasgow and more than 10,400 in Birmingham.

Other cities with a high number of evaders caught include:

• Manchester (more than 7,800)
• Liverpool (more than 7,500)
• Nottingham (more than 6,800)
• Belfast (more than 5,700)
• Edinburgh (more than 5,500
• Hull (more than 4,800)
• Leeds (more than 4,800)
• Bristol (more than 4,600)

The estimated evasion rate remains at a low of just over five per cent, meaning that almost 95 per cent of properties are correctly licensed.

 

[flecc]

Do they have any exemption for a blind person living on their own? (Obviously, if they live with non-blind, then there is an argument the non-blind need to pay.)

Not that I know of and I think it unlikely since the offence is receiving and the wording of the law implies even installing in preparation to receive requires a licence.

And of course listening to the sound is also receiving the program.
.

 

[oyster]

Not that I know of and I think it unlikely since the offence is receiving and the wording of the law implies even installing in preparation to receive requires a licence.

And of course listening to the sound is also receiving the program.
.

Ah! but there is a concession in the UK - 50% off. I was wondering about France and Ireland.

 

[oldgroaner]

Gerald Bell
@GOldcodger
·
1m


With this Australia Free trade deal this Government has rendered the nation defenseless to the first aggressor that wants to take us on. It was hard enough during the last world war to survive with so much imported food, without farming we would have surrendered in weeks

Gerald Bell

@GOldcodger
·
Replying to @GOldcodger
What will become of the empty farms? foreign buyers will snap up the land and the final result of Brexit will be that we are living in a country that has been sold to some foreign nation or nations Brexit equals the end of the British Isles and our history. Did you vote for that?

 

[flecc]

Ah! but there is a concession in the UK - 50% off. I was wondering about France and Ireland.

That seems a sensible compromise, since digital TV also receives numerous radio channels which blind people can make use of and which are no longer licenceable. (They once were).
.

 

[flecc]

What will become of the empty farms? foreign buyers will snap up the land and the final result of Brexit will be that we are living in a country that has been sold to some foreign nation or nations Brexit equals the end of the British Isles and our history. Did you vote for that?

Oddly there's a degree of justice in that,

A number of our British farmers have left here and bought very cheaply huge tracts of the rich and fertile steppes in such as Bulgaria and Romania. Bringing in modern large machinery and methods they've done extremely well, making lots of money.

Tit for tat as the saying goes.

The world becomes an ever more mixed up place.
.

 

[Danidl]

Ah! but there is a concession in the UK - 50% off. I was wondering about France and Ireland.

The French have loads of exemptions , OAPs, infirm etc etc . I could have looked at the form, but I sent it back, as I do annually. In Ireland, concessions are dealt with DSP ..Dept Social Protection ... Its name keeps changing . Obviously I can watch UK NI stations without payment , from my location, and people in Dublin can do so from antenna pointed at Wales . Now with Astra 28.2 satellite, we have a surfeit of UK channels.

 

[Danidl]

.. Oyster, you are a gem ..or perhaps a pearl beyond price. While checking up this topic I discovered that yes the blind get free licences for TV or Radio, and even more relevant, so do the 70+ !

 

[flecc]

.. Oyster, you are a gem ..or perhaps a pearl beyond price. While checking up this topic I discovered that yes the blind get free licences for TV or Radio, and even more relevant, so do the 70+ !

That could kick off the dispute here again on this subject, now we've lost our own over 75 free licence and only get half that blind benefit.
.

 

[oyster]

Another opportunity for a massive screw-up of a government computer system, for VIP "tendering", cost overruns greater than GDPs of many countries, and on and on:

Patel unveils digital visa to help ‘count people entering and leaving UK’
US-style electronic travel authorisation will automatically determine the eligibility of visitors in advance
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/23/patel-unveils-digital-visa-to-help-count-people-entering-and-leaving-uk

Given their PO track record, I assume Fujitsu will be well up the field.

Given their Defence Information Infrastructure track record, I assume the Atlas Consortium and made up of HP Enterprise Services (formerly EDS), Fujitsu, Airbus Defence and Space (formerly EADS Defence & Security) and CGI (formerly Logica) well up the field.

I particularly liked this paragraph:

It was widely accepted that 3 million Europeans lived in the UK and would apply to the government’s EU settlement scheme. By the end of last month, however, more than 5.4 million applications to the scheme had been received, with 4.9 million granted settled status.

 

[oyster]

Another opportunity for a massive screw-up of a government computer system, for VIP "tendering", cost overruns greater than GDPs of many countries, and on and on:

Patel unveils digital visa to help ‘count people entering and leaving UK’
US-style electronic travel authorisation will automatically determine the eligibility of visitors in advance
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/23/patel-unveils-digital-visa-to-help-count-people-entering-and-leaving-uk

Given their PO track record, I assume Fujitsu will be well up the field.

Given their Defence Information Infrastructure track record, I assume the Atlas Consortium and made up of HP Enterprise Services (formerly EDS), Fujitsu, Airbus Defence and Space (formerly EADS Defence & Security) and CGI (formerly Logica) well up the field.

I particularly liked this paragraph:

It was widely accepted that 3 million Europeans lived in the UK and would apply to the government’s EU settlement scheme. By the end of last month, however, more than 5.4 million applications to the scheme had been received, with 4.9 million granted settled status.

Somewhat ironic that someone who has demonstrably failed to manage the Home Office feels they are so well-placed to criticise the BBC. Living in glass houses...

And now using her/their position to threaten the BBC, especially, news, not to do anything which might upset the government.

 

[daveboy]

I see we did well in the Eurovision song farce again....A true poll of the contempt they
hold for us......nil point.

 

[oldgroaner]

A true poll of the contempt they
hold for us......nil point.

More a true response that shows your contempt of them, perhaps?

 

[daveboy]

More a true response that shows your contempt of them, perhaps?

Do you think the result is based on the quality of the song ?

 

[flecc]

Do you think the result is based on the quality of the song ?

Definitely not and rarely is.

We got zero points from the jury and zero points from the public.

Conclusion? That'll teach us for voting for Brexit.

Second worst was Germany with no points from the public.

Conclusion? That'll teach them not to lord it over the rest of the EU and hog the Pfizer vaccine.
.

 

[wheeler]

I particularly liked this paragraph:

It was widely accepted that 3 million Europeans lived in the UK and would apply to the government’s EU settlement scheme. .

There was me thinking over 60 million Europeans lived in the UK.