Brexit, for once some facts.

oldgroaner

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This is hilarious!

A government that has been bought with Russian money turns on the goose that laid the golden egg?
Has the country that subsidises politicians of both main parties through their "Friends of" cosy mates club (Corbyn not included) put in a better offer?
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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This individual want to impose restriction on the public
With her record?
There is no sacred democratic right to place others at risk of death from Covid-19 infection. That demonstration had been rightly banned since we are under level 4 restriction, yet a huge number of very misguided women plus some troublemaking men had gathered tightly packed together for no sensible purpose whatsoever.

The Metropolitan Police had no option other than to try to enforce the law, but were met with violence, some of it undoubtedly from people who were there specifically to be violent to provoke a forceful response.

It's a pity the police were only able to arrest a tiny number, ideally every one there should have been arrested, charged and punished.
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oldgroaner

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There is no sacred democratic right to place others at risk of death from Covid-19 infection. That demonstration had been rightly banned since we are under level 4 restriction, yet a huge number of very misguided women plus some troublemaking men had gathered tightly packed together for no sensible purpose whatsoever.

The Metropolitan Police had no option other than to try to enforce the law, but were met with violence, some of it undoubtedly from people who were there specifically to be violent to provoke a forceful response.

It's a pity the police were only able to arrest a tiny number, ideally every one there should have been arrested, charged and punished.
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I agree with all of that, but not with changing the law beyond where it stands now and certainly not at the whim of a woman with this attitude to obeying the law herself.
What is the point of increasing the range of unlawful activity when already the public won't comply with existing laws?
If you suppress demonstration, eventually you get violence and insurrection instead and the country re runs 1930's Germany.
And we need to remember this
"were met with violence, some of it undoubtedly from people who were there specifically to be violent to provoke a forceful response. "
A trick used by agitators to incriminate the other side and invoke an authoritarian response and repressive laws
 
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flecc

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"were met with violence, some of it undoubtedly from people who were there specifically to be violent to provoke a forceful response. "
Not a trick in this case, I personally watched it on TV and saw it for myself.

I'm betting many of them there were the same people who held the covid denial demonstrations and were using this demonstration for the same purpose.

I'm all for the right to demonstrate for genuine grievances, but there was no sense, valid purpose or reason for this latest demonstration. Where is the logic in mourning someone's death by placing huge numbers of others at risk of death from disease?
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oldgroaner

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Not a trick in this case, I personally watched it on TV and saw it for myself.

I'm betting many of them there were the same people who held the covid denial demonstrations and were using this demonstration for the same purpose.

I'm all for the right to demonstrate for genuine grievances, but there was no sense, valid purpose or reason for this latest demonstration. Where is the logic in mourning someone's death by placing huge numbers of others at risk of death from disease?
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I agree the whole episode was mass stupidity, and that was what we saw
And there was a group of men stirring things up
How convenient, just as there is a bill to make it impossible to protest in parliament right now!
The media being used as a weapon to convince people to do something that is downright dangerous has been employed by the Leave group, (and others too)and destabilised the public, this is an example.
Populist hysteria, and very dangerous too.
I see one of these female groups is calling for further action tonight!
 
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Jesus H Christ

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Dec 31, 2020
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I agree the whole episode was mass stupidity, and that was what we saw
And there was a group of men stirring things up
How convenient, just as there is a bill to make it impossible to protest in parliament right now!
The media being used as a weapon to convince people to do something that is downright dangerous has been employed by the Leave group, (and others too)and destabilised the public, this is an example.
Populist hysteria, and very dangerous too.
I see one of these female groups is calling for further action tonight!
It’ll calm down by mid-week. Monday is washing day and that will all be dry by Wednesday. That big pile of dry washing won’t iron itself. The women’s husbands will be expecting crisp clean shirts. Plus there’s all the hoovering and dusting to do too. There won’t be any time for these silly vigils.
 
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Jesus H Christ

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Murray Walker. RIP.

“I imagine the conditions inside the cockpit are unimaginable.”

“There is nothing wrong with the car except that it’s on fire.”

“There are seven winners of the Monaco Grand Prix on the starting line today, and four of them are Michael Schumacher.”

“Mansell can see him in his earphones.”

A true great.
 
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Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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I do think women do have a harder time than blokes on the abuse and assault front but don't think this "vigil" helps one jot.
Yes, we all know there is a problem but instead of endangering people make some realistic suggestions.
I wouldn't know how to try and change things and it will take years even if we decide what changes to try an implement. I, m afraid it all part of our shambolic society, poor attitudes, lack of respect and willingness to break law when folk feel like it.
Playing devil's advocate tho, I, m 6 feet 2,weigh 105 kg, keep reasonably fit and there are lots of places I wouldn't walk alone at night... Agreed, it's worse for women but thinking we can overnight make everyone safe, on every tow path and dark alley is at best optimistic and probably utterly unrealistic.
But somehow this crime by a serving Police Officer seems much worse. I can't figure it at all.
 

Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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Murray Walker. RIP.

“I imagine the conditions inside the cockpit are unimaginable.”

“There is nothing wrong with the car except that it’s on fire.”

“There are seven winners of the Monaco Grand Prix on the starting line today, and four of them are Michael Schumacher.”

“Mansell can see him in his earphones.”

A true great.
And Marvin Hagler.
Definetly on list of top 5 boxers/fighters ever to walk planet. What an athlete in his day.
Remember Sugar Ray Leonard fight. Both unbelievable. Top athletes at top of their game..
Respect.
 
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Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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Murray Walker. RIP.

“I imagine the conditions inside the cockpit are unimaginable.”

“There is nothing wrong with the car except that it’s on fire.”

“There are seven winners of the Monaco Grand Prix on the starting line today, and four of them are Michael Schumacher.”

“Mansell can see him in his earphones.”

A true great.
Johnny Herbert described him as "that commentator with his pants on fire".
He was the voice of F1 and apparently insisted on standing up whenever giving commentary. I used to love his relationship with James Hunt, who occasionally wouldn't turn up after an all night binge. MW never complained, thought it part of anachronism that was James Hunt. MW would amble on rapidly, telling some tale excitedly, only for Hunt to say "Well, actually Murray, that's not quite true" and then clamly explain real situation. Fantastic TV, fantastic personalities, the likes of which are gone.
 
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oldgroaner

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I do think women do have a harder time than blokes on the abuse and assault front but don't think this "vigil" helps one jot.
Yes, we all know there is a problem but instead of endangering people make some realistic suggestions.
I wouldn't know how to try and change things and it will take years even if we decide what changes to try an implement. I, m afraid it all part of our shambolic society, poor attitudes, lack of respect and willingness to break law when folk feel like it.
Playing devil's advocate tho, I, m 6 feet 2,weigh 105 kg, keep reasonably fit and there are lots of places I wouldn't walk alone at night... Agreed, it's worse for women but thinking we can overnight make everyone safe, on every tow path and dark alley is at best optimistic and probably utterly unrealistic.
But somehow this crime by a serving Police Officer seems much worse. I can't figure it at all.
Let's begin by saying the officer hasn't been for trial yet, not that it will make much difference as the assumption has obviously been made he is guilty on the basis that if his name has been released by the authorities holding him under arrest there is a very high probability of a conviction.
I suspect that the reason for the extreme reaction felt by women is a deep sense of betrayal.
That a man they had held as a sort of Guardian angel could commit such an execrable act on a relatively defenseless lone woman rocks their fundamental feelings of freedom, safety and security.
And they have the examples of a relatively similar situation with the Police and the Black lives Matter breakdown of norms as an example, who also put their lives and those of others at risk to cry out for change.
Once aggrieved people combine into groups, reason flies out of the window, no matter how justified the anger.
 

Zlatan

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Let's begin by saying the officer hasn't been for trial yet, not that it will make much difference as the assumption has obviously been made he is guilty on the basis that if his name has been released by the authorities holding him under arrest there is a very high probability of a conviction.
I suspect that the reason for the extreme reaction felt by women is a deep sense of betrayal.
That a man they had held as a sort of Guardian angel could commit such an execrable act on a relatively defenseless lone woman rocks their fundamental feelings of freedom, safety and security.
And they have the examples of a relatively similar situation with the Police and the Black lives Matter breakdown of norms as an example, who also put their lives and those of others at risk to cry out for change.
Once aggrieved people combine into groups, reason flies out of the window, no matter how justified the anger.
I suspect he has also attempted suicide on 2 occasions, I, d guess those head injuries were somehow self inflicted. Police would be making absolutely sure nobody inflicts harm on him. I, d assume he, s on suicide watch which could be interpreted as further evidence of guilt. But all assumption at moment. The case still baffles me. Nearly 3 years protecting diplomats, access to firearms throughout and then over course of a couple of weeks everything destroyed. Very strange.
 

oldgroaner

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Apparently the one is Bristol went off without incident they managed to infect each other without harming any police personnel
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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The case still baffles me. Nearly 3 years protecting diplomats, access to firearms throughout and then over course of a couple of weeks everything destroyed. Very strange.
There's a strange precedent. Many years ago a Police diplomatic squad officer in London armed as usual at the time with a pistol spotted a man they wanted for questioning on a non-diplomatic matter trying to manouvre a car out back and forth of a narrow space. That suspected offender had no record of firearms use or violence

The officer stood in the road alongside the car and ordered the man out, but he ignored the officer and still tried to manouvre the car back and forth to wriggle out. Unaccountably the officer drew his pistol and without a warning he shot the man dead in the head. By any standards it was cold blooded murder and totally unnecessary.

In court on trial the officer claimed his life was at risk from being run over, but that was nonsense since cars cannot drive sideways from being trapped between two other cars. In any case he could have shot out the car's tyres to stop the man. To much surprise the jury acquitted him of any offence. Many people including me suspected the jury had been fixed, not for the first time in those days.

Once again a diplomatic officer acting irrationally in a completely baffling way.
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