Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Mmm. Perhaps but recognising a politicians abilities does not mean one sees them as qualities... Not recognising Tory MPs abilities is dangerous and probably why they have hardly been out of power in last 50 years.
Seems to me we continually underestimate Tory MPs, write them off as "insert insult" and then wonder how they got in no10.(again?)
The scenario OG and I have been discussing is just such a case. Johnson, and his colleagues, might or might not be all as you described but he, s a talented politician. Knows how to avoid damaging dead ends and then how to develop favour amongst voters. Everything Labour seem incapable of, I, d like to say recently, but it's seems almost forever. I don't really count Blair as anything but Tory,but he could do same... But couldn't maintain it. Starmer will be out manoeuvred at every step.
Its exactly why I asked flecc who he saw as an alternative to Tory. In reality is there one?

Well, I'm free for a couple of hours when the better half has a sleep in the afternoon.

And with me, what you see is what you get.
What could possibles go wrong?

Seriously though we could always ask the person financing this debacle, I'm sure that nice Mr Putin would be only too keen to take it on.

 

[oldgroaner]

If you can't afford it...

The restyled décor is said to have been inspired by celebrated eco interior designer Lulu Lytle. The founder and director of Soane Britain ‘designs and makes British-made furniture, upholstery, lighting, fabrics and wallpaper’ based on ‘traditional crafts including blacksmiths’.

Prince Charles visited her rattan workshop last year just before the pandemic. Miss Lytle’s fabrics start at £100 a metre.

Work on refurbishing the No 11 flat is believed to have been completed in recent months. It went on for more than a year and was disrupted by Covid.

Mr Johnson first expressed concern at the rising cost early last year. He is said to have commented there was ‘no way’ he could pay for it after being informed by the Cabinet Office that the maximum taxpayer contribution was ‘around £30,000’.

https://newsopener.com/uk/boris-johnsons-secret-charity-fund-for-carrie-symonds-no-10-makeover-of-his-private-flat/

I can certainly think of charities I consider more deserving than Johnson's Changing Rooms rehash. A darts board and the Charity Commission's list would probably be a good start.

You can get things with more style at the average Pound Shop
Mind you I can see the Blacksmith's idea of style in that second room

 

[Jesus H Christ]

According to my daughter, who is attending professional seminars on virology, perhaps the devil takes care of his own, and evidence is emerging that the AZ vaccine fortuitously does improve with a delayed second jab!

That’s what the medical advisors to the government have been saying all along ( or as flecc prefers Government Lackies). That’s why they advised the government to delay the second jab, to give more people a good level of protection from serious illness in the shortest possible time scale. Thank goodness the government listened this time.

It’s been the me me me’s on here demanding both vaccinations at the expense of their fellow citizens that has confused the issue. Hysterically, it’s been the fake socialists shouting the loudest

You & OG need to take your Jeremy Corbyn goggles off, they are interfering with your heads.

No doubt the confused leprechaun will appear soon with something unduly complicated, wrong and irrelevant.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

I think The Tiny Scottish Idiot Woman is toast. I suppose we’d better let her have her day before celebrating too much.

It doesn’t look good though. There appears to have been a lot of lying and misleading of her government.

 

[Zlatan]

Cómo la vacunación contra el Covid-19 en la UE se convirtió en la mejor publicidad para el Brexit

Mientras los países de la Unión Europea (UE) sufren las consecuencias de retrasos en el plan de vacunación contra el Covid-19, los analistas condenan el proceso de adquisición de vacunas de Bruselas…

www.france24.com

I think the UK/EU vaccine roll out has had a more profound effect on attitudes abroad than home. Had above article sent from a friend a few days ago. Speaking with her on phone she was more appreciative and praising of our scheme than people here. (here in general not thread)
I, ll stick a translation up in a minute.

How the EU’s Covid-19 vaccine rollout became an ‘advert for Brexit’

As EU countries suffer the consequences of a lethargic Covid-19 jab rollout, analysts decry a Brussels procurement process that lacked both urgency and expertise while vaccinations sprint forward in…

www.france24.com

Think this is same article. Believe it started life in French but was written by Tom Wheeldon for France 24.(were totally anti Brexit???)
Yes, I know it's old and all countries have moved on, but I, ve posted it as a demonstration of change in attitudes, not for data included.

 

[oldgroaner]

That’s what the medical advisors to the government have been saying all along ( or as flecc prefers Government Lackies). That’s why they advised the government to delay the second jab, to give more people a good level of protection from serious illness in the shortest possible time scale. Thank goodness the government listened this time.

It’s been the me me me’s on here demanding both vaccinations at the expense of their fellow citizens that has confused the issue. Hysterically, it’s been the fake socialists shouting the loudest

You & OG need to take your Jeremy Corbyn goggles off, they are interfering with your heads.

No doubt the confused leprechaun will appear soon with something unduly complicated, wrong and irrelevant.

Usual garbage..
"It’s been the me me me’s on here demanding both vaccinations at the expense of their fellow citizens that has confused the issue. Hysterically, it’s been the fake Tory Fanboys shouting the loudest
And who chose to distort the fact we were calling for this second shot for EVERYONE not simply ourselves

But then, when the Tory world view is based on personal greed and selfishness, they are immune from ideas that don't benefit them personally without causing loss to everyone else
Hence the spite expended to warp what is being discussed, not to mention disparaging remarks of calling someone more intelligent than himself as a "Leprechaun" because of his nationality.
Pathetic

 

[oldgroaner]

Cómo la vacunación contra el Covid-19 en la UE se convirtió en la mejor publicidad para el Brexit

Mientras los países de la Unión Europea (UE) sufren las consecuencias de retrasos en el plan de vacunación contra el Covid-19, los analistas condenan el proceso de adquisición de vacunas de Bruselas…

www.france24.com

I think the UK/EU vaccine roll out has had a more profound effect on attitudes abroad than home. Had above article sent from a friend a few days ago. Speaking with her on phone she was more appreciative and praising of our scheme than people here. (here in general not thread)
I, ll stick a translation up in a minute.

How the EU’s Covid-19 vaccine rollout became an ‘advert for Brexit’

As EU countries suffer the consequences of a lethargic Covid-19 jab rollout, analysts decry a Brussels procurement process that lacked both urgency and expertise while vaccinations sprint forward in…

www.france24.com

Think this is same article. Believe it started life in French but was written by Tom Wheeldon for France 24.(were totally anti Brexit???)

So you found something that appears to vindicate your point of view
What a surprise, no doubt there are people in the EU who could point to comments in this country expressing the opposite point of view.
That is all this is a point of view.

 

[Zlatan]

I think The Tiny Scottish Idiot Woman is toast. I suppose we’d better let her have her day before celebrating too much.

It doesn’t look good though. There appears to have been a lot of lying and misleading of her government.

Wonder if timing is rather good. Sturgeon's popularity correlates fairly directly with that for independence. Both suffered at opinion polls???

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Usual garbage..
"It’s been the me me me’s on here demanding both vaccinations at the expense of their fellow citizens that has confused the issue. Hysterically, it’s been the fake Tory Fanboys shouting the loudest
And who chose to distort the fact we were calling for this second shot for EVERYONE not simply ourselves

But then, when the Tory world view is based on personal greed and selfishness, they are immune from ideas that don't benefit them personally without causing loss to everyone else
Hence the spite expended to warp what is being discussed, not to mention disparaging remarks of calling someone more intelligent than himself as a "Leprechaun" because of his nationality.
Pathetic

You still can’t, or refuse to grasp the concept that giving the second vaccination after three weeks effectively halves the rate at which the population is given a good level of protection from serious illness. Why are you determined not to understand that? I spelled it out for you a couple of days ago. X & X/2..... remember?

The delayed second dose is a winning strategy, accept it. I don’t credit the government with that, the recommendation came from the country’s leading medics. All the government did was listen to their advice for a change. Does that make it easier for you to swollen the idea that the U.K. is doing well at something?

 

[Zlatan]

So you found something that appears to vindicate your point of view
What a surprise, no doubt there are people in the EU who could point to comments in this country expressing the opposite point of view.
That is all this is a point of view.

Yes, agreed, a point of view shared by most of Europe. Spanish and French friends are raving about our roll out and extremely scathing of their own and the part EU has played in it.
And, as I said in post. I wasn't making any points, or reinforcing ones already made, it was posted as a demonstration of attitudes changing abroad. It's very indicative of mood in Europe, probably not in this thread but that is for other reasons.
You simply fail to see anything. Attitudes toward UK/Brexit/EU have all changed. Yes, it might not be permanent but its changed.
That article was written by a remainer living in France, writing for a media out let which has derided Brexit/UK for past 4 years.
It was why I was sent it.
I have friends living in France and Spain who thought me odd for voting Brexit. They have been scathing and some distant. Their attitudes to both me, UK and Brexit have changed. Some almost apologising. A couple getting in touch for first time in 3 years. (ex pats tended to be seriously anti Brexit, that has diminished)
The simple fact is our vaccine roll out has changed attitudes towards Brexit. (in those capable of changing their minds)

A year ago finding an article written in French, translated to Spanish distributed throughout Europe from France which was pro Brexit/UK would have been impossible. Its common now.

You are becoming more Canute like by the day. The vaccine roll out has been a massive success pushing the tide of Brexit further ashore. Like it or lump it. Fact. Both are happening.

 

[Zlatan]

You still can’t, or refuse to grasp the concept that giving the second vaccination after three weeks effectively halves the rate at which the population is given a good level of protection from serious illness. Why are you determined not to understand that? I spelled it out for you a couple of days ago. X & X/2..... remember?

The delayed second dose is a winning strategy, accept it. I don’t credit the government with that, the recommendation came from the country’s leading medics. All the government did was listen to their advice for a change. Does that make it easier for you to swollen the idea that the U.K. is doing well at something?

Stony ground JHC. Preaching to some is futile.

 

[oldgroaner]

You still can’t, or refuse to grasp the concept that giving the second vaccination after three weeks effectively halves the rate at which the population is given a good level of protection from serious illness. Why are you determined not to understand that? I spelled it out for you a couple of days ago. X & X/2..... remember?

The delayed second dose is a winning strategy, accept it. I don’t credit the government with that, the recommendation came from the country’s leading medics. All the government did was listen to their advice for a change. Does that make it easier for you to swollen the idea that the U.K. is doing well at something?

And you got it wrong, the difference is not so great as you imagine, the simple fact is you are excusing the government failure to do the job properly and having to string it out for most of a year, losing something like 10 to 15% protection in the process, but then you are desperate to boast of success aren't you?
It's a case of taking a dangerous and un-necessary risk because of being poorly organised.
And paying over the odds and absolving the supplier of liability out of desperation to get ahead of the EU

 

[oldgroaner]

Stony ground JHC. Preaching to some is futile.

I know, the pair of you are prime examples

 

[oldgroaner]

Yes, agreed, a point of view shared by most of Europe. Spanish and French friends are raving about our roll out and extremely scathing of their own and the part EU has played in it.
And, as I said in post. I wasn't making any points, or reinforcing ones already made, it was posted as a demonstration of attitudes changing abroad. It's very indicative of mood in Europe, probably not in this thread but that is for other reasons.
You simply fail to see anything. Attitudes toward UK/Brexit/EU have all changed. Yes, it might not be permanent but its changed.
That article was written by a remainer living in France, writing for a media out let which has derided Brexit/UK for past 4 years.
It was why I was sent it.

It seems just as here the numbers are what impresses, but then that is exactly why this stunt with the dosage dates has been pulled on us.

 

[oldgroaner]

I think The Tiny Scottish Idiot Woman is toast. I suppose we’d better let her have her day before celebrating too much.

It doesn’t look good though. There appears to have been a lot of lying and misleading of her government.

Which of course would be unthinkable with the Government you voted for
And it's all grist to the mill for the Tory press to use to hide the lies corruption and incompetence of ours!

 

[oldgroaner]

That’s what the medical advisors to the government have been saying all along ( or as flecc prefers Government Lackies). That’s why they advised the government to delay the second jab, to give more people a good level of protection from serious illness in the shortest possible time scale. Thank goodness the government listened this time.

It’s been the me me me’s on here demanding both vaccinations at the expense of their fellow citizens that has confused the issue. Hysterically, it’s been the fake socialists shouting the loudest

You & OG need to take your Jeremy Corbyn goggles off, they are interfering with your heads.

No doubt the confused leprechaun will appear soon with something unduly complicated, wrong and irrelevant.

I missed this bit earlier...
You've done it again haven't you? I have posted on here that I am no fan of Corbyn, and yet here you are, changing that to me wearing Jeremy Corbyn Goggles?
No wonder you voted Tory just as all other strangers to the truth do

 

[Jesus H Christ]

And you got it wrong, the difference is not so great as you imagine, the simple fact is you are excusing the government failure to do the job properly and having to string it out for most of a year, losing something like 10 to 15% protection in the process, but then you are desperate to boast of success aren't you?
It's a case of taking a dangerous and un-necessary risk because of being poorly organised.
And paying over the odds and absolving the supplier of liability out of desperation to get ahead of the EU

20 million people have had the first dose of vaccine and with each day that passes, the evidence suggests they are between 74 and 84% less likely to become seriously ill with Coronavirus than they were before being vaccinated.

The alternative, your alternative, would have been to give around 90% protection from serious illness to 10 million people, and leave the other 10 million without any protection at all. I suggest that would have led to an increased death toll.

It all comes down to the vaccination rate, to a great extent it’s fixed. Our vaccination rate is a world leading figure, so I don’t think there was / is a great deal of headroom to increase it.

If you can’t understand this and still insist on politicising the issue, you are a ****.

 

[oyster]

People do things that make no sense to me:

Explosion at Dutch COVID-19 test centre appears intentional, police say
By Reuters Staff
3 Min Read

AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - Dutch police on Wednesday said a coronavirus testing centre north of Amsterdam appeared to have been intentionally targeted after an explosion went off at the facility before it opened.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-netherlands-blast/explosion-at-dutch-covid-19-test-centre-appears-intentional-police-say-idUSKCN2AV0O4

 

[Zlatan]

I missed this bit earlier...
You've done it again haven't you? I have posted on here that I am no fan of Corbyn, and yet here you are, changing that to me wearing Jeremy Corbyn Goggles?
No wonder you voted Tory just as all other strangers to the truth do

So you wanted Jo Swinson in no 10? Of course not. Now that would have been brilliant during pandemic.
Choice was Tories or Corbyn. Swinson was a wasted vote, a cop out, so that at a later date you couldn't be labelled a Tory fan boy or a Marxist. You stood on the sidelines. As a kid we called it a coat holder. Somebody who watched on whilst you got battered. Somebody who refuses to back either camp because they are frightened of both but call it expediency.
And then criticises both. Sounds just like you OG.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

I missed this bit earlier...
You've done it again haven't you? I have posted on here that I am no fan of Corbyn, and yet here you are, changing that to me wearing Jeremy Corbyn Goggles?
No wonder you voted Tory just as all other strangers to the truth do

I keep telling you, faced with the same miserable line up that we had at the last election and knowing what I know now, I’d still vote Tory 20X over. I’m quite content about that.