Brexit, for once some facts.

oldgroaner

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I believe they are appreciably different. You've rightly drawn attention to the baleful influences that the population have been subjected to currently.

But our education and political systems have been grossly distorting the views and standing of the population for many decades, leading to them being very different from the peoples of the mainland European countries. The differences are something I first noted when living and working in France in the 1960s and regularly visiting to work in other countries in the 1970s.

Hence the Brexit vote, which most others in the EU view as madness and impossible to understand.
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My point was flecc that the people are not different, but their cognisance is, due to the political and social environment created to mislead them, in fact we are agreeing with each other!
It is their reaction that is different due to conditioning, surely?
 

oldgroaner

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We are on the back of a tiger, how do we (UK) get off?
We don't, and really we should let this thing run it's course, as the only way to get through to the people who are so enthusiastic for Brexit is for them to take the lesson that Moths attracted to a Flame because it is so attractive either learn a lesson when they feel the heat or are consumed.

When enough get burnt for their foolishness, with luck sanity will return and there will be change for the better.

And that has to start with both Parliament and the Murdoch Press being taken to account for their actions.
 
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anotherkiwi

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I am more charitable than most, as I believe as I said right at the beginning, that collectively the inhabitants of this island are not different to those from anywhere else.
We (from your colonies) received your education. We are the fruit of your Empire.

Brexit is "le sommet de votre connerie"...
 

Kudoscycles

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You should only be ashamed of your own actions. You can be embarrassed by the actions of others.
What outsiders , including myself find continually puzzling is why a drastic decision is being made or may be made on what is a flimsy mandate. 52/48 is not a mandate for action. Your parliament is expected to form considered judgements on what is the best course for your country.
I am becoming more convinced that the only person who is 100% behind Brexit is Theresa May and not because she thinks ita a good idea,she knows that end of Brexit is end of her PM job.
She is desperate to avoid any vote which may reveal the true anti Brexit feelings both in parliament and the electorate.
I just don't know how we get ourselves out of this ridiculous situation...we could try lighting tyres on the M25,that seems to work quite well for the French.
KudosDave
 

oldgroaner

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The Daily Mail is having a bit of an "off" day with it's readers, mind you they appear to have developed an advanced case of paranoia
The Headline was

Revealed: Spy bosses told Trump that Kremlin has a 'blackmail dossier' on him - including 'footage of him watching prostitutes in degrading sex acts on Moscow hotel bed where the Obamas had previously slept'

And this genius reader posted
"It's all the " Left wing , Liberal Elite " trying to tarnish Trump , Because they can't accept defeat ! They tried that with Nigel Farage , I think the Daily Mail are no exception ( Secret " Remainer's ) ................... Get use to it , time's are a changing , people are " Fed Up " of being manipulated , By the " Liberal Elite , Obama , Brussel's big multi national's institutions !

So the Daily Mail are "Secret Remainers?" that is truly Delicious!
 

oldgroaner

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oldtom

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It's 201 days since the referendum and I'm at a loss to see any improvement in the country's prospects for the future. As for the present, we can see some price rises beginning to appear and our currency has been effectively devalued as a direct consequence of the poll result. Beyond that, the government's failure to repudiate the nonsense from the media insisting that such a result should immediately be enshrined as government policy has further damaged public confidence and the economic outlook.

Shouldn't someone in government now actually spell it out - state the case for 'Brexit'? The nation deserves to know, not what might be or what could possibly be the outcome, but what will actually be the position should we exit the EU. They have had 201 days to prepare.

It's time people stopped simply accepting the painfully repeated soundbites from the most ineffectual PM I can remember since Douglas-Home and demand from their MPs that we be furnished with a detailed manifesto for a post-'Brexit' age. If they cannot provide that then the whole matter should be scrapped as, clearly, it would be a step into the unknown and would imperil the nation.

Those of us who support and advocate the continuation of our membership of the EU have known from the outset that, almost certainly, the risks of leaving far outweigh the complaints some have levelled at our continuing membership. If the 'leave' camp didn't know last June, there can be no doubt now that the government hasn't a clue what it is doing in regard to 'Brexit'. All the evidence suggests we will be simply a faded imperialist power, isolated in the modern world, while begging for deals from nations which owe us nothing, just so we can survive.

The days of colonisation are long since gone yet there are are still some who take great joy from silly songs about 'ruling the waves' and such like. We don't rule very much at all these days and if we don't stop imagining we are an important world power, as a nation we will very soon be unable to trade anywhere other than the world's charity shops and street markets in terms of global commerce.

The population of the UK was lied to and gulled repeatedly by Blair, then Cameron not so long ago and that has since cost this country vast sums of money, not to mention the loss of a great many of our young people in military service. We have more recently been lied to again by politicians so why are we allowing them to lead us into what will seem little different from military conflict for a great many of our people?

Tom
 

Woosh

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Politicians lie since time immemorial.
Meanwhile, the Pound drops to new low today, heading to below $1.20. That means Woosh will have to put up prices by about 3% next month or March.
 

Kudoscycles

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I read today that our government is proposing to levy every employer who employs EU workers,£1000 per worker.
I assume that is to force employers to employ UK workers.
The government don't understand that the reason employers don't employ UK workers is because the Brits don't want these jobs,they are too hard work at minimum wage. Whichever way the employer decides it will just make the UK less competitive and we will import more.
I must say that if this is the best this government can come up with then Brexit will be a disaster.
KudosDave
 
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Kudoscycles

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Apr 15, 2011
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Politicians lie since time immemorial.
Meanwhile, the Pound drops to new low today, heading to below $1.20. That means Woosh will have to put up prices by about 3% next month or March.
Kudos are still selling e-bikes at 2016 prices,until new models arrive in the spring,whatever happens to exchange rates.
KudosDave
 
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anotherkiwi

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Is that legal? Tax on workers I mean
 
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oldgroaner

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Heres what appears to be good news for Brexit Fans from the Express
"
Brexit U-turn: Bank of England boss says EUROPE needs to fear exit as UK risk subsides
THE Bank of England is not having a Michael Fish moment, despite policymakers wrongly warning about the impact of a Brexit vote, Mark Carney claimed today.
In fact, the UK's exit from the European Union (EU) is now a bigger threat to the continent than Britain, said the Canadian chief.

He told the Treasury Select Committee: "There are greater financial stability risks on the continent in the short-term, for the transitions, than there are for the UK."
Looks good for the Brexit camp so far...
But the Express ran out of luck
But the chief repeated warnings that there would be a slowdown In Britain's economy this year, thanks to the vote to leave.

As part of exiting the custom union, the Governor said it's "highly advisable" that there is a transition phase agreed early on - or there could be risks to Britain's financial stability.

A case of it "ain't what you say but the way the Press spin it"
After all who doubts it will also affect the EU short term, but since we are leaving, why should that be a source of pride?
And this bit is temporary too "UK risk subsides" when he warned of a slowdown to the economy next year.
Only an idiot wants to make people they have no quarrel with suffer.
And just as clearly the Express regards leave voters as too thick to read the full transcript and understand the implications.
 
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Woosh

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Is that legal? Tax on workers I mean
I thought about this all day and came to the conclusion that I agree with this form of tax. It may sound repugnant but it's logical in its concept: the people who benefit the most from FOM are the employers and immigrants.
 
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oldgroaner

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I thought about this all day and came to the conclusion that I agree with this form of tax. It may sound repugnant but it's logical in its concept: the people who benefit the most from FOM are the employers and immigrants.
May I remind you that that a logical case can be made for slavery? logic is not a sufficient reason to make laws.
Better not do things that are Morally repugnant, we are supposed to be progressing not regressing.
 
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Woosh

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OG, I take it that you mean slavery as in forced labour after kidnapping and false imprisonment.
The point I made about it may sound repugnant is simply the principle that two people doing the same job ought to be paid the same salary and this levy may seem to encourage employers to pay immigrants less.
However, if you look at the levy as tax, then a government can easily justify taxing immigrants and/or their employers more.
 
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