Brexit, for once some facts.

Barry Shittpeas

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Perhaps there was. With most only suffering cold or flu like symptoms there could well have been without it being recognised as something new.

I'm still aware of how some died in San Francisco from a mysterious unrecognised illness that was later recognised to probably be aids. That was long before the USA announced that aids originated from monkeys in Africa and long before aids existed in Africa.

Put that together with President Kennedy's Peace Corps of young Americans who went to work as volunteers in Africa and all the pieces of the jigsaw are in place for the origins of a pandemic being politically moved.

I'm sure you well understand that there is no limit to human wickedness.
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If the virus was inadvertently imported ti Wuhan from elsewhere, the overwhelming probability is that the first outbreak would have been in elsewhere. Elsewhere would have been ahead of the curve. Non of these things happened and the spread centres on China.

Dannidl is just making excuses for China in the hope of bagging a free Number 47 (Sizzling Beef Cantonese Style) from his local Chinky.
 
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Danidl

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It can’t have been imported because the outbreak would have started at the point the
person importing it to Wuhan originated from, or there would have been a simultaneous outbreak at that location. Neither happened which proves two things, #1 Your theory is incorrect and #2 You are a clown.

I won’t mention the Laboratory Guards Olympics :D
I assure you that few people consider me a clown, which makes you either extremely astute or as thick as the stuff you keep raking. "When the finger points to the moon, the idiot looks at the finger."
Yes my theory may be incorrect, but it is plausible, . You see I am not a conspiracy theorist, what I surmise is that there is or was a logical pathway for the infection to appear in Wuhan, without bad faith on anyone's part. Had those Games taken place in Moscow or Francisco the same process could have occurred.
Oyster has already provided a response to that ..so I need not repeat the obvious.

What is seriously dangerous in your (and Trumps ) approach is that with approximately the same amount of evidence, ye are judging China. China is a proud country and will no longer be a whipping boy,and they have made that clear.

I am not a fan of Chinese cooking..in fact the only one I ever enjoyed was in high class one in Edinburgh!..a delicious Chicken a la orange
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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If the virus was inadvertently imported ti Wuhan from elsewhere, the overwhelming probability is that the first outbreak would have been in elsewhere. Elsewhere would have been ahead of the curve. Non of these things happened and the spread centres on China.
You are speaking of probabilities, we are speaking of possibilities.

Both exist.
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Barry Shittpeas

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You are speaking of probabilities, we are speaking of possibilities.

Both exist.
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When a bomb detonates, you look for the smoking hole in the ground to locate the place of detonation. Wuhan is the smoking hole in the ground where this virus is concerned. Wuhan is the point of detonation.

Talk of Laboratory Guards, inadvertent visiting carriers who miraculously don’t start the infection in the home town is out of the question. It will be contaminated meteorites next!
 
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sjpt

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When a bomb detonates, you look for the smoking hole in the ground to locate the place of detonation. Wuhan is the smoking hole in the ground where this virus is concerned. Wuhan is the point of detonation.
Usually the source of the bomb is far away from the place where it detonates.
 

jonathan.agnew

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Dec 27, 2018
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I assure you that few people consider me a clown, which makes you either extremely astute or as thick as the stuff you keep raking. "When the finger points to the moon, the idiot looks at the finger."
Yes my theory may be incorrect, but it is plausible, . You see I am not a conspiracy theorist, what I surmise is that there is or was a logical pathway for the infection to appear in Wuhan, without bad faith on anyone's part. Had those Games taken place in Moscow or Francisco the same process could have occurred.
Oyster has already provided a response to that ..so I need not repeat the obvious.

What is seriously dangerous in your (and Trumps ) approach is that with approximately the same amount of evidence, ye are judging China. China is a proud country and will no longer be a whipping boy,and they have made that clear.

I am not a fan of Chinese cooking..in fact the only one I ever enjoyed was in high class one in Edinburgh!..a delicious Chicken a la orange
Speaking of cooking, as shan-lu Liu at Ohio state university point out, the virus' genome has been sequenced and if it were man made there would be signs of inserted gene sequences (which there are not).
 
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Woosh

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Speaking of cooking, as shan-lu Liu at Ohio state university point out, the virus' genome has been sequenced and if it were man made there would be signs of inserted gene sequences (which there are not).
that's the problem. Back in the 80s, genome modifications were done using virus vectors which leave tell tale backbone residues.
Not now.
People have access to vast resources: software simulations and 3D printing like facilities.
You can simply write the sequence that you want to insert, where to insert (and in which gene), the software will design the codon or codons for you using CRISPR system and you can literally contract out the job to someone else via emails.
When I was at uni in the late 60s - early 70s, bio-chemistry did not have databases like now but I did study bio-chemistry for 6 months.
 

oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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When a bomb detonates, you look for the smoking hole in the ground to locate the place of detonation. Wuhan is the smoking hole in the ground where this virus is concerned. Wuhan is the point of detonation.

Talk of Laboratory Guards, inadvertent visiting carriers who miraculously don’t start the infection in the home town is out of the question. It will be contaminated meteorites next!
When a bomb explodes looking into the hole won't necessarily tell you where it came from or why it was dropped.
The old saying appropriate here when jumping to conclusions with evidence is applicable here

"Bigotry is a great time saver
it allows you to make your mind up
without bothering with the facts"

What we have here is the sort of evidence Lynch mobs regards as conclusive.
When you have so many different nations vying for the title of biggest bloody fool on the planet, taking the first scapegoat offered up for sacrifice is not wise.
Not wise at all.
After all since the virus can be created elsewhere, what is to stop someone like Putin arranging for an outbreak in another country to create mayhem at no cost to Russia?
I give you that simply as a plausible example not a conspiracy theory.
My logic when looking at a crime would be to question who has the most to gain for perpetrating it.
It's a very short list, isn't it?
And who is the most Devious Ba****d of them all?
 
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Nev

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May 1, 2018
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I doubt if we will ever know for sure where the virus started, but my best guess would be Wuhan, either in the wet market there or got out of one of the Labs there by mistake. This is not 100% certain and if I was the Chinese then I would be grasping at any straw I could to deflect attention onto someone else.

There is a small possibility it started somewhere else and we cant rule that out completely but most of the experts I have seen and read think it originated in Wuhan.

One thing I think I would like to see is the total banning of bats being sold to people as food. It has been known for donkeys years that bats carry multiple viruses. I think I read somewhere more viruses than any other animal. Therefore the breading, collection and selling of bats for food should be made illegal, and the punishment for this should be extremely serious. I'm not talking about a slap on the wrist or a small fine, I'm talking about something like 10 years imprisonment.

China is not the only country that eats bats there are many others, the banning of bat consumption should be world wide and severe punishment handed out to people that flout this.

I remember seeing a documentary about viruses years ago, and the presenter was saying that bats seemed to play a large role in the spread of viruses due to the large amount they carried within them. He said that the next world wide pandemic which would eventually strike the world would almost certainly have originated in a bat. He said that eating bats should be banned world wide.

A few days ago I mentioned the possibility that the virus could possibly attach itself to small pollution particles emitted from vehicles. There is more on this and additional information about virus death rates and pollution in this article, well worth a read.
 

oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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I doubt if we will ever know for sure where the virus started, but my best guess would be Wuhan, either in the wet market there or got out of one of the Labs there by mistake. This is not 100% certain and if I was the Chinese then I would be grasping at any straw I could to deflect attention onto someone else.

There is a small possibility it started somewhere else and we cant rule that out completely but most of the experts I have seen and read think it originated in Wuhan.

One thing I think I would like to see is the total banning of bats being sold to people as food. It has been known for donkeys years that bats carry multiple viruses. I think I read somewhere more viruses than any other animal. Therefore the breading, collection and selling of bats for food should be made illegal, and the punishment for this should be extremely serious. I'm not talking about a slap on the wrist or a small fine, I'm talking about something like 10 years imprisonment.

China is not the only country that eats bats there are many others, the banning of bat consumption should be world wide and severe punishment handed out to people that flout this.

I remember seeing a documentary about viruses years ago, and the presenter was saying that bats seemed to play a large role in the spread of viruses due to the large amount they carried within them. He said that the next world wide pandemic which would eventually strike the world would almost certainly have originated in a bat. He said that eating bats should be banned world wide.

A few days ago I mentioned the possibility that the virus could possibly attach itself to small pollution particles emitted from vehicles. There is more on this and additional information about virus death rates and pollution in this article, well worth a read.
Given the connection between a form of rabies and bats, I'd be running away from them under any circumstances. I wouldn't be happy to touch one even wearing decent gloves. Not scared of bats, as such, but the disease issues are potentially serious.

Some bats in the UK carry rabies viruses called European Bat Lyssaviruses (EBLV). EBLV are not the classical rabies virus which is usually associated with dogs; classical rabies has never been recorded in a native European bat species. The presence of EBLV in bats in the UK does not affect the UK's rabies-free status as this relates to classical rabies only.
 

RossG

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Feb 12, 2019
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Interesting to read about the link between covid and air pollution. Coastal towns have a lower infection rate of the virus presumably because of the clearer air quality plus of course the strong breezes blowing everything around.
I'm lucky to live where I do on the coast by the sea....except of course when the tide goes out and the air reeks of seaweed, we get used to that here.
 
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oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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Interesting to read about the link between covid and air pollution. Coastal towns have a lower infection rate of the virus presumably because of the clearer air quality plus of course the strong breezes blowing everything around.
I'm lucky to live where I do on the coast by the sea....except of course when the tide goes out and the air reeks of seaweed, we get used to that here.
Though some of the worst affected parts of Wales are around Newport and Cardiff - both sort-of on the coast. And Swansea. With the peculiarly low number in Powys, which is not coastal. (But also has no real hospitals.)

On a purely selfish basis, I hope being close to the coast is good.

Of course, one of the ironies is that regardless the use of masks, etc., if pollution is a major factor, getting everyone back to work will almost certainly hugely increase pollution levels.
 
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