Brexit, for once some facts.

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
Someone has been to Melton Mowbray and put in a huge order. Probably the government:

Care England, Britain’s largest representative body for care homes, told the Daily Telegraph that up to 7,500 care home residents may have died of the virus.

This is significantly higher than the figure of 1,400 people estimated to have died by the government earlier this week.
 
  • :D
Reactions: Woosh and POLLY

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
Timing, just before today's government briefing:

An NHS nurse has criticised Matt Hancock after her eight-year-old daughter begged her not to continue working in A&E during the coronavirus pandemic.

Kate, who did not want her surname published, has worked in the NHS for 25 years and in February returned to a more hands-on role. However, since the coronavirus outbreak unfolded in the UK, the 44-year-old has campaigned against Public Health England’s guidance during the crisis, and her daughter is concerned for her mother’s safety.

Kate tweeted the health secretary on Friday that her child had gone to bed “sobbing and begging me not to work in A&E”, adding: “her words broke me, ‘Mummy I’m only 8 and I need you - I don’t want you to die’”. Kate told the PA news agency:

I was so angry. How dare he [Hancock] put us in this position. I can’t even reassure her without lying that I’ve got enough equipment to keep me safe at work. Actually the reality is I’ve been going to work for weeks in a crap plastic pinny and a basic surgical mask. I can’t even reassure her effectively without lying that we’ve got everything that we need.


I feel for that daughter.
 

Wicky

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 12, 2014
2,823
4,011
Colchester, Essex
www.jhepburn.co.uk
Timing, just before today's government briefing:

An NHS nurse has criticised Matt Hancock after her eight-year-old daughter begged her not to continue working in A&E during the coronavirus pandemic.

Kate, who did not want her surname published, has worked in the NHS for 25 years and in February returned to a more hands-on role. However, since the coronavirus outbreak unfolded in the UK, the 44-year-old has campaigned against Public Health England’s guidance during the crisis, and her daughter is concerned for her mother’s safety.

Kate tweeted the health secretary on Friday that her child had gone to bed “sobbing and begging me not to work in A&E”, adding: “her words broke me, ‘Mummy I’m only 8 and I need you - I don’t want you to die’”. Kate told the PA news agency:

I was so angry. How dare he [Hancock] put us in this position. I can’t even reassure her without lying that I’ve got enough equipment to keep me safe at work. Actually the reality is I’ve been going to work for weeks in a crap plastic pinny and a basic surgical mask. I can’t even reassure her effectively without lying that we’ve got everything that we need.


I feel for that daughter.
All foreseeable but made worse by PPE shortages - From NHS Barnet pandemic plan from 2016 which lkely is much the same around the country.

6.3 Failure to attend work

Barnet CCGs expects that unless members of staff are unwell themselves, it will be exceptional for the member of staff to not be able to attend work in some capacity. Staff who do not attend work because they are unwell should follow the locally agreed sickness absence policy outlined to them at the beginning of an influenza pandemic. Staff who display symptoms should be sent home and advised not to work until fully recovered. Staff should also be informed in an appropriate way of the risks associated with pandemic influenza and what action they can take to protect themselves and others, and instructing them not to attend work when they are symptomatic but to attend work when they are well

Staff with caring responsibilities should be dealt with on a sympathetic basis but at the same time, Barnet CCG and staff should be working together to try and agree attendance at work in some capacity. Home working may be a feasible option for some staff. The nature of the support could vary, for example a mix of paid and unpaid leave, building on existing carers leave provisions. Some staff may be reluctant to come to work due to fear of infection. Initially, efforts should be made to convince staff to attend work by direct approaches from clinical colleagues and Occupational Health.

The level of anxiety that an influenza pandemic is likely to generate should be acknowledged and Barnet CCG should seek to persuade rather than penalise. However, Barnet CCG should not rule out the possibility of having to apply disciplinary action, subject to disciplinary policies and procedures for unauthorised absence or failure to follow a reasonable management instruction. Barnet CCG will need to recognise that some individuals may be deemed at ‘higher risk’ than others due to health conditions and special consideration may need to be given to these staff, including Occupational Health advice and support. For further advice, please contact the HR business partner at NEL CSU.

Every NHS organisation is required to have a Pandemic Influenza Lead to drive local pandemic influenza planning. The ultimate responsibility for pandemic preparedness and planning resides with Chief Executives as described in the Civil Contingencies Act 2004.
 
  • :D
  • Informative
Reactions: oyster and POLLY

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,154
30,572
Care England, Britain’s largest representative body for care homes, told the Daily Telegraph that up to 7,500 care home residents may have died of the virus.

This is significantly higher than the figure of 1,400 people estimated to have died by the government earlier this week.
The snag is that it's meaningless. Even 1 is up to 7,500.

Care England need to come up with something more solid than newspaper speak. It needs the "may" left out and a definite minimum as well, such as:

"Over 4,300 and up to 7,500 care home residents have died"
.
 

sjpt

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2018
3,823
2,750
Winchester

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
Someone has been to Melton Mowbray and put in a huge order. Probably the government:

Care England, Britain’s largest representative body for care homes, told the Daily Telegraph that up to 7,500 care home residents may have died of the virus.

This is significantly higher than the figure of 1,400 people estimated to have died by the government earlier this week.
The Irish figures might be illuminating . Half our fatalities are from non acute hospitals including care homes . 30% of our care homes have CV19 . So if the UK were recording only deaths in acute hospitals, the true figure might be double that.
 
  • Informative
  • :D
Reactions: flecc and POLLY

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
All foreseeable but made worse by PPE shortages - From NHS Barnet pandemic plan from 2016 which lkely is much the same around the country.

6.3 Failure to attend work

Barnet CCGs expects that unless members of staff are unwell themselves, it will be exceptional for the member of staff to not be able to attend work in some capacity. Staff who do not attend work because they are unwell should follow the locally agreed sickness absence policy outlined to them at the beginning of an influenza pandemic. Staff who display symptoms should be sent home and advised not to work until fully recovered. Staff should also be informed in an appropriate way of the risks associated with pandemic influenza and what action they can take to protect themselves and others, and instructing them not to attend work when they are symptomatic but to attend work when they are well

Staff with caring responsibilities should be dealt with on a sympathetic basis but at the same time, Barnet CCG and staff should be working together to try and agree attendance at work in some capacity. Home working may be a feasible option for some staff. The nature of the support could vary, for example a mix of paid and unpaid leave, building on existing carers leave provisions. Some staff may be reluctant to come to work due to fear of infection. Initially, efforts should be made to convince staff to attend work by direct approaches from clinical colleagues and Occupational Health.

The level of anxiety that an influenza pandemic is likely to generate should be acknowledged and Barnet CCG should seek to persuade rather than penalise. However, Barnet CCG should not rule out the possibility of having to apply disciplinary action, subject to disciplinary policies and procedures for unauthorised absence or failure to follow a reasonable management instruction. Barnet CCG will need to recognise that some individuals may be deemed at ‘higher risk’ than others due to health conditions and special consideration may need to be given to these staff, including Occupational Health advice and support. For further advice, please contact the HR business partner at NEL CSU.

Every NHS organisation is required to have a Pandemic Influenza Lead to drive local pandemic influenza planning. The ultimate responsibility for pandemic preparedness and planning resides with Chief Executives as described in the Civil Contingencies Act 2004.
Putting a staff member without PPE in direct contact is not " a reasonable management instruction ". There is no court which would convict. . In fact the CEO or line manager is in direct contravention of the Health and Safety directives and both professionally and personally responsible. ..Yes personally. The UK is still under EU law at present .. isn't Karma a B!!!!
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
All foreseeable but made worse by PPE shortages - From NHS Barnet pandemic plan from 2016 which lkely is much the same around the country.

6.3 Failure to attend work

Barnet CCGs expects that unless members of staff are unwell themselves, it will be exceptional for the member of staff to not be able to attend work in some capacity. Staff who do not attend work because they are unwell should follow the locally agreed sickness absence policy outlined to them at the beginning of an influenza pandemic. Staff who display symptoms should be sent home and advised not to work until fully recovered. Staff should also be informed in an appropriate way of the risks associated with pandemic influenza and what action they can take to protect themselves and others, and instructing them not to attend work when they are symptomatic but to attend work when they are well

Staff with caring responsibilities should be dealt with on a sympathetic basis but at the same time, Barnet CCG and staff should be working together to try and agree attendance at work in some capacity. Home working may be a feasible option for some staff. The nature of the support could vary, for example a mix of paid and unpaid leave, building on existing carers leave provisions. Some staff may be reluctant to come to work due to fear of infection. Initially, efforts should be made to convince staff to attend work by direct approaches from clinical colleagues and Occupational Health.

The level of anxiety that an influenza pandemic is likely to generate should be acknowledged and Barnet CCG should seek to persuade rather than penalise. However, Barnet CCG should not rule out the possibility of having to apply disciplinary action, subject to disciplinary policies and procedures for unauthorised absence or failure to follow a reasonable management instruction. Barnet CCG will need to recognise that some individuals may be deemed at ‘higher risk’ than others due to health conditions and special consideration may need to be given to these staff, including Occupational Health advice and support. For further advice, please contact the HR business partner at NEL CSU.

Every NHS organisation is required to have a Pandemic Influenza Lead to drive local pandemic influenza planning. The ultimate responsibility for pandemic preparedness and planning resides with Chief Executives as described in the Civil Contingencies Act 2004.
Well let's look at the latest about this:

Good
He said a significant consignment of PPE is due to arrive in the UK from Turkey tomorrow, which will contain 400,000 gowns.

Bad
It will take three weeks to distribute them. Lest anyone suggest this is unfair, Hancock has so many times told us there is plenty of PPE but the distribution has been a monumental effort.
 
Last edited:
  • :D
Reactions: POLLY

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
The snag is that it's meaningless. Even 1 is up to 7,500.

Care England need to come up with something more solid than newspaper speak. It needs the "may" left out and a definite minimum as well, such as:

"Over 4,300 and up to 7,500 care home residents have died"
.
Totally agree that "up to" should be banned. (Mind, "upto" is even more ban-worthy.)
 
  • Like
  • :D
Reactions: POLLY and flecc

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
Well let's look at the latest about this:

Good
He said a significant consignment of PPE is due to arrive in the UK from Turkey tomorrow, which will contain 400,000 gowns.

Bad
It will take three weeks to distirbute them. Lest anyone suggest this is unfair, Hancock has so many times told us there is plenty of PPE but the distribution has been a monumental effort.
Followed up:

The government has accepted that some personal protective equipment (PPE) is in short supply and promised that a large consignment, including 400,000 gowns – , is due to arrive in the UK from Turkey on Sunday.

On Saturday, unions and professional bodies said that NHS staff may refuse to work if there was not enough PPE to ensure their safety, in response to new guidance from Public Health England (PHE), revealed by the Guardian on Friday, which instructs healthcare workers to reuse disposable PPE.

The guidelines also recommended that medics wear aprons if they are unable to access full-length gowns. There are concerns that some PPE supplies are close to running out. The NHS is using about 150,000 gowns a day.


What does "large" mean when that is less that three days supply? It just sounds a big number to say during the presser. It really isn't any more than a tiny stop-gap.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
Well let's look at the latest about this:

Good
He said a significant consignment of PPE is due to arrive in the UK from Turkey tomorrow, which will contain 400,000 gowns.

Bad
It will take three weeks to distirbute them. Lest anyone suggest this is unfair, Hancock has so many times told us there is plenty of PPE but the distribution has been a monumental effort.
Then it's time to stop shipping monuments about! and get the transport going the right job.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: oyster

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
Brexitshambles

@brexit_sham
·
3h
Shithousery on a Herculean scale.... https://pic.twitter.com/9ihMQ9l2ST
Quote Tweet




Fraser Nelson

@FraserNelson
· 5h
A plethora of mistakes by ministers has shown how much they are lacking the Prime Minister's leadership says Patrick O’Flynn https://spectator.co.uk/article/what-the-country-needs-most-is-boris-johnson-back-at-his-desk

oldgroaner@oldgroaner
Yes if they want to be personally responsible for the deaths of thousands they need him to lead by example
 
  • Agree
Reactions: oyster

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
You can only drain something that is present. Just how can you drain away faith in Hancock?

Also, as I understand, Raab does not have fire and fire powers... So what then? (I'm far from convinced Johnson is remotely fit enough to come back and take control. Hmm, something familiar about that phrase.)
 
Last edited:

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
You can only drain something that is present. Just how can you darin way faith in Hancock?

Also, as I understand, Raab does not have fire and fire powers... So what then? (I'm far from convinced Johnson is remotely fit enough to come back and take control. Hmm, something familiar abotu that phrase.)
So what ? he never was before he went AWOL with a self inflicted wound, so why shouldn't the deserter be put back in the front line in the trenches?
He's malingered long enough
 
  • Like
Reactions: oyster

Advertisers