Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

EU is and should remain a trading block and not an all controlling political experiment, which is exactly what it is.

The problem is the linkage. To be a fully effective trading block means no barriers, so borderless. That in turn means transport harmonisation. That in turn means common transport laws and many common laws for the personnel crossing those borders.

Then you have a goose and gander situation, what's good for one is good for the other. You can't say common laws for the truck drivers but not for anyone else conducting other business across borders, and once you concede for them, why not tourists as well?

And with common unimpeded borders, no customs etc, it's necessary to have a considerable degree of fiscal harmonisation. And where can the line be drawn between staying and working while visiting or staying and working more permanently, which in turn leads to more harmonisation in reciprocal medical treatments and pension payments?

Once you've gone that far, it's necessary to have a ruling authority like a common court, it cannot be left to member countries courts making conflicting rulings if the above conditions are to be met.

Parliament has already discovered all this during the WA negotiations, which have conceded so much that parliament didn't consider the TM and BJ agreements leaving at all. But there's more concessions certain to be made during the trade agreement negotiations.

By the time it's all over in a few years time, many will be wondering why we even bothered to try leaving since we'll be still so tightly bound.
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[Zlatan]

The problem is the linkage. To be a fully effective trading block means no barriers, so borderless. That in turn means transport harmonisation. That in turn means common transport laws and many common laws for the personnel crossing those borders.

Then you have a goose and gander situation, what's good for one is good for the other. You can't say common laws for the truck drivers but not for anyone else conducting other business across borders, and once you concede for them, why not tourists as well?

And with common unimpeded borders, no customs etc, it's necessary to have a considerable degree of fiscal harmonisation. And where can the line be drawn between staying and working while visiting or staying and working more permanently, which in turn leads to more harmonisation in reciprocal medical treatments and pension payments?

Once you've gone that far, it's necessary to have a ruling authority like a common court, it cannot be left to member countries courts making conflicting rulings if the above conditions are to be met.

Parliament has already discovered all this during the WA negotiations, which have conceded so much that parliament didn't consider the TM and BJ agreements leaving at all. But there's more concessions certain to be made during the trade agreement negotiations.

By the time it's all over in a few years time, many will be wondering why we even bothered to try leaving since we'll be still so tightly bound.
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Good post flecc. Yes, probably all correct. We, ll see. Reality is we, ve been in for approching 50 years. Societies are so entwined that true withdrawal is almost impossible. But it was offered and we voted to leave.??
Might be a beneficial action if EU accepts change must happen, wether its with us or without in 20 years has yet to be seen.
Perhaps we might have stopped arguing about it by then, but I somehow doubt it.

 

[Woosh]

on the day our government talks about our new system of points for immigration, spare a thought for those Brits who live in EU countries. Next year, their children may have to sit language tests to see if they can take on employment there.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

on the day our government talks about our new system of points for immigration, spare a thought for those Brits who live in EU countries. Next year, their children may have to sit language tests to see if they can take on employment there.

That seems sensible to me.

 

[flecc]

Perhaps we might have stopped arguing about it by then, but I somehow doubt it.

You're right, it will never be over, the human race is permanently conflicted, herd animals needing each other's help and protection but each with a strong self willed streak of independence and wanting to be the one in charge. Just like all herd animals, the only time we are in harmony is when facing a common threat like being at war with another herd.
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[Woosh]

That seems sensible to me.

apparently, our government also suggests that employers instead of moaning about not having access to low skilled EU workforce should think of training up the 8 million Brits who are currently economically inactive.
That will go down well.

A little fact: out of 70,000 seasonal EU fruit pickers who work on our farms, currently less than 1% are Brits. My guess fishermen and fishery factories also relie on EU workforce.

 

[flecc]

Next year, their children may have to sit language tests to see if they can take on employment there.

I doubt that will be too big a problem, judging from the present. Each other's children at both ends are usually rapidly proficient in this respect, it's more the parents who can struggle, the children even translating for them.
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[Woosh]

I doubt that will be too big a problem, judging from the present. Each other's children at both ends are usually rapidly proficient in this respect, it's more the parents who can struggle, the children even translating for them.
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Those young enough to attend local schools will be OK.
I take it that you don't watch Channel 4 'A new life in the sun' at 4PM in the afternoon.
Being sufficiently proficient to sit tests is easier said than done.

 

[oldgroaner]

labour want to be in power but they can't achieve it. They can't achieve power because not enough people like their policies. They are too insulated in their metropolitan elite bubble to realise this, that is why they will elect RLB as their new leader. The cycle of humiliating defeat and ineffective opposition will then star over again.

The Tory party can't believe their luck.

They had best enjoy it while it lasts, as it won't!

 

[oldgroaner]

apparently, our government also suggests that employers instead of moaning about not having access to low skilled EU workforce should think of training up the 8 million Brits who are currently economically inactive.
That will go down well.

A little fact: out of 70,000 seasonal EU fruit pickers who work on our farms, currently less than 1% are Brits. My guess fishermen and fishery factories also relie on EU workforce.

Interesting that if this is a good idea, it wasn't tried before, isn't it?
Imagine that , we have "Full employment" and yet 8 million aren't in work.
Fascinating what you can do with employment figures.

 

[oyster]

That seems sensible to me.

It gets more difficult when you start to wonder what language they will be tested on.

It isn't only Wales that has an official langauge which is not the obvious, main language of the country (I mean, of course, the UK).

 

[oldgroaner]

on the day our government talks about our new system of points for immigration, spare a thought for those Brits who live in EU countries. Next year, their children may have to sit language tests to see if they can take on employment there.

Don't worry the government will make provision for the use Child Labour again so that they can come over here to work, the only training required will be either the ability to climb apple trees or use a ladder.

 

[oldgroaner]

It gets more difficult when you start to wonder what language they will be tested on.

It isn't only Wales that has an official langauge which is not the obvious, main language of the country (I mean, of course, the UK).

Oh seadh tha sin fìor

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

apparently, our government also suggests that employers instead of moaning about not having access to low skilled EU workforce should think of training up the 8 million Brits who are currently economically inactive.
That will go down well.

A little fact: out of 70,000 seasonal EU fruit pickers who work on our farms, currently less than 1% are Brits. My guess fishermen and fishery factories also relie on EU workforce.

...and frozen pizza makers, and pig in blanket constructors. All of our young people are being fleeced in universities, attending so they obtain a useless qualification and £45000 worth of debt by default. Then they can enter the workforce and do something totally non-relevant to their qualification.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

It gets more difficult when you start to wonder what language they will be tested on.

It isn't only Wales that has an official langauge which is not the obvious, main language of the country (I mean, of course, the UK).

I think English speaking will get them a long way. It's the dominant language and will only become more important.

 

[Zlatan]

They had best enjoy it while it lasts, as it won't!

You, ve already been saying that a while now OG. Its lasted since Blair disintegrated, its stronger now than ever before and there has been precious little to suggest its lost any support at all. Yes, nothing lasts forever, and predicting any organisations downfall has got to be correct, its a matter of when not if for eveeything and everybody. Yes, its going to snow. Question is when.
Also, trouble with predicting when with Tories also contains linked problem of when will there be a viable alternative? Nothing has as yet emerged to fill the vacuum created by death of Labour. For Tories to vacate power something must emerge. Exactly what? Do you trully believe any Party led by RLB (or Starmer) could actually win an election no matter what Boris has delivered.
You keep telling us that Tories will fall on their sword but exactlt what is there to replace them if or when they do? Serious question... Which party could replace Tories?

 

[oyster]

I think English speaking will get them a long way. It's the dominant language and will only become more important.

English might get them a long way.

But if a country imposes a language requirement, then it is whatever language they specify that is required.

And I was considering the issues like someone living in a German speaking part of Italy. They might be fluent in one but expected to pass a test in the other.

 

[Woosh]

Do you trully believe any Party led by RLB (or Starmer) could actually win an election no matter what Boris has delivered.

Starmer might.
He puts winning power at the top of his agenda, meaning he'll do what it takes rather than sticking to socialist ideals.

 

[Zlatan]

Starmer might.
He puts winning power at the top of his agenda, meaning he'll do what it takes rather than sticking to socialist ideals.

Yes, I do agree, but can he really do much whilst Party is controlled by Unite/McCluskey. But of them all he is most likely to try and lead them out the wilderness. He isn't leader yet tho.

 

[flecc]

Those young enough to attend local schools will be OK.

Yes it was the school age children I was commenting on.
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