Brexit, for once some facts.

[OxygenJames]

If shelter is saying 320000 people are sleeping rough then that’s bull shite. There may be that many who don’t have a home and rely on sheltered accommodation, but there aren’t that many actually sleeping rough in the streets and parks.

You are beginning to sound like Labour’s Dawn Buttler. You should hear her interview about homelessness with Nick Ferrari on LBC (google it, I heard it live). Absolute comedy gold dust. It’s better than Diane Abbott’s adding up.

You don't want to trust ANY stats coming out of the likes of Shelter - or Oxfam - both utterly unreliable and utterly politically biased.

 

[OxygenJames]

I’m not saying it is down to BoJo or his cronies. What I am saying is that things are not worse here than in the wider EU. In many ways, our standards are higher and our facilities are better.

Now considering that only one Labour MP has won an election in the last 45 years............

Soon to be 55.

 

[OxygenJames]

I sort of agree people shouldnt tell others to go and live elsewhere for holding certain opinions.... But you have knocked everything about our country for over 3 years now OG and held up the EU as some shining light and the standard to be achieved. I, m afraid that is very wrong and perhaps what you should do is take a drive around EU and take in Northwrn Spain, Marseille and the places off the beaten track. You, d be shocked. Many crime ridden, poverty stricken areas with very racist attitudes. Said it before but if you think our right racist you, d better stay here.
All this arguing is rather pointless now. We are leaving, Labour are dead and reading what is going on never likely to rise from the ashes.
The bubble has burst. The liberal luvvies silenced by a much more astute electorate than remainers / radical left suspect.
Didnt vote for Boris, dont like his track record but he could prove to be a good pm. He is trying to carry out his pledges, he only has to be seen to be trying to do so and he, ll keep those borrowed labour votes.
In mean time Labour bicker amongst themselves with McClyskey showing he, s still major player in there. Political suicide for entire Party.And amazingly some on here are happy our Labour party, our oppostion, our second party, has been hijacked by a radical narrow minded organisation but get upset where Boris goes for a party.
If there is a section of our political system that has been coerced and overun it certainly is not our right. Its the left,well whats left of it.

It's payback time. Three and a half years of utter b******ks we had to put up with. They can all sod off and live in France for all I care.

 

[Zlatan]

Dawn Butler was the one who said that 90% of Giraffes are gay. She, s been one of Corbyn's underlings throughout and replaced Sarah Champion after her little disagreement with Corbyn.

 

[OxygenJames]

btw OG - your post had more punch and impact as a one-liner.

Less is often more.

 

[OxygenJames]

From the DT in a comment:

"Yes, what a wonderful country! Since Cameron announced his decision to hold a referendum on Britain's EU membership, the people of this country have been assailed from all quarters by a barrage of criticism, denigration, insults, and from Barack Obama, threats to punish us for having the disgraceful audacity to insist on being a free, sovereign, and democratic country.

For nearly five years we have withstood the punches thrown at us by the British media, the House of Commons, the House of Lords, the Supreme Court, the whole of the EU, the IMF, Obama. Our crime? To wish to return to being a self-governing country and making decisions that suit our needs and plans, and not a colony of the new Franco-German Empire of Europe.

And in that long five years, not a drop of blood spilled, not a building burned down, not a city paralysed by chaos. Nothing but calm determination by a population to fight the war being waged against us using the peaceful tools of democratic methods.

A wonderful country indeed! Show me another that would demonstrate such commitment to the rule of law in the face of such overwhelming provocation.

Merry Christmas to all DT readers."

 

[OxygenJames]

From the DT in a comment:

"Yes, what a wonderful country! Since Cameron announced his decision to hold a referendum on Britain's EU membership, the people of this country have been assailed from all quarters by a barrage of criticism, denigration, insults, and from Barack Obama, threats to punish us for having the disgraceful audacity to insist on being a free, sovereign, and democratic country.

For nearly five years we have withstood the punches thrown at us by the British media, the House of Commons, the House of Lords, the Supreme Court, the whole of the EU, the IMF, Obama. Our crime? To wish to return to being a self-governing country and making decisions that suit our needs and plans, and not a colony of the new Franco-German Empire of Europe.

And in that long five years, not a drop of blood spilled, not a building burned down, not a city paralysed by chaos. Nothing but calm determination by a population to fight the war being waged against us using the peaceful tools of democratic methods.

A wonderful country indeed! Show me another that would demonstrate such commitment to the rule of law in the face of such overwhelming provocation.

Merry Christmas to all DT readers."

OK - last one.

"Spot on. We just dodged a massive bullet, thanks to Nigel Farage (the referendum), JRM (starting off the May disposal process), the ERG (for sticking to their guns), Boris (for being Boris), Cummings (for being a genius) and finally, and spectacularly, the great British voter, who knows what’s best for both themselves and their country. Merry Christmas!"

 

[50Hertz]

Dawn Butler was the one who said that 90% of Giraffes are gay. She, s been one of Corbyn's underlings throughout and replaced Sarah Champion after her little disagreement with Corbyn.

A testament to Corbyn’s judgment.

You can write the script. If Corbyn’s bunch halfwits, such as Butler had got into power, they would have spent all the money on committees, bodies, consultation groups, think tanks, talking shops, anything but action. They always fail on action because they are useless, as that interview illustrates.

 

[flecc]

From the CEO of Phones 4 U.

"Throughout the build up to the election I made my position clear regarding my political values. I am proud of Britain, I am happy to pay my tax, but my fears of what Labour would do to the fabric of this country had they got in, were increasing.

My view was and is, that if Labour had gained power, that it would not only be devastating for the wealthy people who want to stay in Britain, but would be devastating for all classes, including the poor.

Hence I made my decision to donate £500,000 to the Conservative Party on the Monday before the election. I have never donated to any political party, apart from a single donation to Bill Cash's campaign for Brexit. However, I felt that I could no longer stand by and do nothing, as the rhetoric spun by both Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell was so abhorrent and terrifying, in terms of what it would it would do to a “Great” Britain.

My well publicised interview with John McDonnell in his constituency the week before, only affirmed my views that the Labour Party attaining power would be catastrophic for Britain. John McDonnell did nothing to change my views. His arguments were flawed and weak and, worse still, I saw him as a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Labour's manifesto was completely unachievable and unfinanceable, and would have thrown the country into turmoil. They were trying to buy votes by taking money off the rich and giving it to the poor. Unfortunately, they would have driven so many rich people out of the country that the UK's tax base would have been reduced dramatically. Far from helping the poor, Labour would have had to increase taxes on everyone who remained.

The following day, I met Boris Johnson at the Conservative headquarters, to discuss my commitment to helping make Britain great again, and two days following I made my donation of £500,000.

Brexit was a big part of this decision to donate, because we just had to get Brexit done and Boris is the only man to do this.

The Government has only got so much money to go round and whether they put it into social services or health services, they have to operate within budget or raise taxes. That is a fact of life. Corbyn's rhetoric was anti-rich, anti-billionaire, anti-aspirational, anti-inspirational and negative in every way. Labour would have not only been divisive to our society, undermining enterprise in every way – they would have sucked the life blood out of the economy. I do want to see the health service improve - but we have to find different ways of doing it.

I want to see the poor better off by making the country wealthier and for there to be increased tax revenue to be able to afford these improvements, but whilst still encouraging the wealthy to stay in Britain. I want to see the NHS prosper. I see no reason whatsoever why every hospital cannot have a private area which deals with people who can afford it or have got private health insurance. Any profits from this private work would contribute towards an improved health service for the rest of society.

Of course, this retains a two tier service - but why not use tier one to make tier two much better? It would be the same doctors treating people privately as treating people on the NHS. There is no Utopian solution to this - life can be unfair. We already have the super-wealthy like me, and we have poor people. We just need to do everything we can to bridge this divide.

I am not anti-Labour. I am anti the dreadful policies and the practices of Corbyn and McDonnell. What I want is a very credible Labour party. Hopefully, after Brexit we can get back to two party politics with a much strengthened rejuvenated Labour party with sensible and productive policies. I have always voted Conservative, but I never felt so paranoid about the destruction of Great Britain, as I have felt about this Labour Party coming to power.

Had the policies of the Labour Party been more sensible, I almost certainly would not have felt the need to donate. "

John Caudwell founded mobile phone retailer Phones4U

Utter scaremongering nonsense, Cauldwell is so ignorant he thinks the Great in Great Britain refers to status, where in fact it only refers to the addition of the land area of Scotland at the time of union. I doubt Cauldwell even realises that if Scotland leaves the union, there will no longer be a Great Britain, there will just be Britain and the UK.

Labour's planned expenditure was less than that which Sweden proportionally spends and they are far from going broke. Yes it is real socialism, but with that they are more successful in every way than the UK. For example they export successfully on a large scale worldwide, which we say isn't possible within the EU, and their social care is far better than we can ever hope for.

Once again though you and Zlatan will probably scrub around for the worst possible example and compare it to our best as you did with St Pancras.

And please don't try to lecture me on the position of those in poverty in Paris since I certainly know more about that first hand than you. I've been out after dark helping to delivering basic foods like sacks of cheap rice and commercial cans of chopped tomatoes to those unfortunates in overcrowded slum basements there, using a Peugeot estate to retain anonimity.

Why the need for anonimity? Because the supplies came from our family delicatessen in the 19th arrondissment and given French racism, any hint of us supplying black immigrants would lose us some of our better customers and possibly harm our food import-export business.
.

 

[flecc]

If you went to France, you’d be back here within six months asking to live in Boris’s Brexit Land. You’d do that because it’s better here when you are a needy and vulnerable person. They all return when they reach that stage, because we look after people better here.

Strange that we have such a large number of ex pats living there if it's so bad?
.

 

[50Hertz]

Strange that we have such a large number of ex pats living there if it's so bad?
.

It’s just a case of the grass is always greener. It certainly is not in France.

You won’t find OG heading there anytime soon. He knows which side his bread is buttered.

 

[flecc]

No, I’m still in favour of remaining part of the EU. I think leaving is a mistake.

The U.K. is a far better place than France if you are vulnerable, poorly, foreign, or have any requirements to interact with authorities. Their food chain is disgusting too.

I don’t think the U.K. has a homeless problem any worse than other developed EU nations. I believe we have about 4000 sleeping rough and truly without any form of accommodation. That’s something we need to address, as do other countries.

You are lucky living in the UK. You would have a far worse time in mainland Europe and you’d be banging on Boris’s door asking to come back if you went there to live. Have some appreciation for what you have, it’s not perfect, but it’s better than France. Be grateful.

Rubbish, OG is a pensioner:

"The state French pension scheme then entitles retirees to draw a maximum of 50% of their annual average earnings up to a limit of €39,732 per year. For those born since 1953, a minimum pension rate is secured at 37.5%."

I doubt OG gets from the state 50% of what he was earning at the end of work.
.

 

[flecc]

Here's a strange thing - Flecc/anybody have you noticed this? In OG's original post I saw only one line - the top one about me being stupid. But when I clicked on 'reply' suddenly 4 more lines appeared in his quote.

What's with that?

That's actually Zlatan's favourite trick. Many's the time I've given him an agree, them found later he's added something extensive I very much disagreed with.
.

 

[OxygenJames]

I lied. One more:

"By embracing a second referendum, Labour crossed a line. It no longer supported workers who trusted democracy more than the European Court of Justice when it came to their rights.

Labour thought that the consequences would be catastrophic and displayed no confidence that our country could flourish outside frictionless capitalism. The Left suddenly became experts in just-in-time supply chains as if capitalism, the most adaptable economic system ever devised, would not be able to cope.

They were not faithful to the marriage and it is now over. There is no evidence that there will be a reconciliation."

 

[OxygenJames]

Utter scaremongering nonsense, Cauldwell is so ignorant he thinks the Great in Great Britain refers to status, where in fact it only refers to the addition of the land area of Scotland at the time of union. I doubt Cauldwell even realises that if Scotland leaves the union, there will no longer be a Great Britain, there will just be Britain and the UK.

Labour's planned expenditure was less than that which Sweden proportionally spends and they are far from going broke. Yes it is real socialism, but with that they are more successful in every way than the UK. For example they export successfully on a large scale worldwide, which we say isn't possible within the EU, and their social care is far better than we can ever hope for.

Once again though you and Zlatan will probably scrub around for the worst possible example and compare it to our best as you did with St Pancras.

And please don't try to lecture me on the position of those in poverty in Paris since I certainly know more about that first hand than you. I've been out after dark helping to delivering basic foods like sacks of cheap rice and commercial cans of chopped tomatoes to those unfortunates in overcrowded slum basements there, using a Peugeot estate to retain anonimity.

Why the need for anonimity? Because the supplies came from our family delicatessen in the 19th arrondissment and given French racism, any hint of us supplying black immigrants would lose us some of our better customers and possibly harm our food import-export business.
.

You're a decent man Flecc. You are a decent man. We may disagree on many things but that remains true.

 

[flecc]

To wish to return to being a self-governing country and making decisions that suit our needs and plans, and not a colony of the new Franco-German Empire of Europe.

But if we'd co-operated instead of always being awkward, we wouldn't be a colony, it would be a predominantly Anglo-Franco-German empire.
.

 

[OxygenJames]

But if we'd co-operated instead 0f always being awkward, we wouldn't be a colony, it would be a predominantly Anglo-Franco-German empire.
.

Sure. And if I'd knuckled down in my early 30s instead of chasing skirt and doing every new drug I found down the clubs I went - then I'd be a multi-millionaire.

But.

That's not the 'if' that happened.

 

[50Hertz]

Rubbish, OG is a pensioner:

"The state French pension scheme then entitles retirees to draw a maximum of 50% of their annual average earnings up to a limit of €39,732 per year. For those born since 1953, a minimum pension rate is secured at 37.5%."

I doubt OG gets from the state 50% of what he was earning at the end of work.
.

Well our pensions and healthcare comes from an insurance policy which we buy. However we have decided to pay out to many non-policy holders. There is only so much money.

Imagine if car insurance was the same. Companies fixing cars for non policy holders. They’d go bust and genuine policy holders would suffer reduced service. That’s what’s happened with National Insurance. They’ve fixed issues for non-policy holders, so those with a policy don’t get what they were expecting. We can’t have it all ways.

 

[oldgroaner]

Here's a strange thing - Flecc/anybody have you noticed this? In OG's original post I saw only one line - the top one about me being stupid. But when I clicked on 'reply' suddenly 4 more lines appeared in his quote.

What's with that?

I’m having intermittent connection problems with Karoo, much of the time it’s hard to tell if the posts have gone, apologies for that, this one is on the iPhone as the server dropped out mid post

 

[OxygenJames]

I’m having intermittent connection problems with Karoo, much of the time it’s hard to tell if the posts have gone, apologies for that, this one is on the iPhone as the server dropped out mid post

OK.