Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

'The problem was you': Furious Labour MPs blast Corbyn over election

All 202 of its remaining MPs confronted the outgoing opposition leader as he addressed them in Parliament tonight as it returned for the first time since their harrowing Thursday night loss.

mol.im

Best comment.
"The Party doesn't just need a new driver it needs a new bus".
The truth from within???

 

[oldgroaner]

Optimistic thought for the day.

Those who voted leave in the referendum have made the most critical comments on the Labour Party for failing to rescue them from the consequences of that decision.
They should take heart from the fact that they initiated a hard lesson in reality in this country that in the end the Voting public just might draw the correct lesson from.

And the entertainment continues, with the press vying to find nice things to say, having run low of having to keep up attacks on it's enemies.
Now it has to find excuses for it's friends.

Bit like turning "Pravda"

 

[oldgroaner]

'The problem was you': Furious Labour MPs blast Corbyn over election

All 202 of its remaining MPs confronted the outgoing opposition leader as he addressed them in Parliament tonight as it returned for the first time since their harrowing Thursday night loss.

mol.im

Best comment.
"The Party doesn't just need a new driver it needs a new bus".
The truth from within???

How long are you going to keep this up? such bitterness.
We lost.
No politician ever was vilified so often for trying to follow his conscience, he deserves respect not contempt for doing that.
Let the poor old man retire in peace.

 

[Zlatan]

How long are you going to keep this up? such bitterness.
We lost.
No politician ever was vilified so often for trying to follow his conscience, he deserves respect not contempt for doing that.
Let the poor old man retire in peace.

Posters/people should accept Labour
A) Was responsible for loosing.(It was not the media or stupid voters)
B) Needs to change dramatically.

The article although critical of Corbyn, does recognise the whole party needs to change. Hence comment "Dont just change driver change whole bus".
To be honest think Corbyn brings enough to Party to still be a part of it. A broad church would include both his politics and Blairites. Dont throw the baby out with the washing again like last time.If the party cant unite around Blairite policies and Corbyn's they will never get in power. They need both no matter how mutually exclusive they appear.
But its what Labour party does. It will swing from one extreme to other rather than embrace all.
Besides, McCluskey and Unite are hardly likely to depart any time soon.
Its their total dominance of party which must change. The rest are mouth pieces.

 

[oldgroaner]

Posters/people should accept Labour
A) Was responsible for loosing.(It was not the media or stupid voters)
B) Needs to change dramatically.

The article although critical of Corbyn, does recognise the whole party needs to change. Hence comment "Dont just change driver change whole bus".
To be honest think Corbyn brings enough to Party to still be a part of it. A broad church would include both his politics and Blairites. Dont throw the baby out with the washing again like last time.If the party cant unite around Blairite policies and Corbyn's they will never get in power. They need both no matter how mutually exclusive they appear.
But its what Labour party does. It will swing from one extreme to other rather than embrace all.
Besides, McCluskey and Unite are hardly likely to depart any time soon.
Its their total dominance of party which must change. The rest are mouth pieces.

For goodness sake give it a rest, it really isnt a priority at the moment, there is plenty of time to re organise and Boris the best recruiter the Labour Party ever had
Starmer will be the next leader

 

[Zlatan]

For goodness sake give it a rest, it really isnt a priority at the moment, there is plenty of time to re organise and Boris the best recruiter the Labour Party ever had
Starmer will be the next leader

I, m sorry OG, you are very wrong. Its of utmost importance. This is what Tony Blair has to say about it.



We are talking about the complete disappearnace of our second party. At moment there is no other to take its place. That means Tory rule for near future and long term. Anorher 10 years? Another 20? Another 50???
And you are saying move on?
Media won't be making a big deal of Labour extinction. They dont care. But that is exactly what we are going to see.
Tony Blair, Campbell and Kinnock all think same.
No, its not important, keeping democracy and representation of lower classes alive.?????
We are drifting into British politics without Labour. You never know how much you miss something till its gone.

 

[oldgroaner]

I, m sorry OG, you are very wrong. Its of utmost importance. This is what Tony Blair has to say about it.
View attachment 33411

We are talking about the complete disappearnace of our second party. At moment there is no other to take its place. That means Tory rule for near future and long term. Anorher 10 years? Another 20? Another 50???
And you are saying move on?
Media won't be making a big deal of Labour extinction. They dont care. But that is exactly what we are going to see.
Tony Blair, Campbell and Kinnock all think same.
No, its not important, keeping democracy and representation of lower classes alive.?????

You are panicking! the Labour party lost just 2% of it's voters, and the Conservatives only gained 1% more than last time.
My goodness, a 2% loss of support means a party is disappearing because it's leader failed?
No chance.
And a few weeks all this will be forgotten as Starmer takes over and starts mauling Boris at the dispatch box, by then Boris will have made plenty of gaffes to take him to task on.

 

[Zlatan]

You are panicking! the Labour party lost just 2% of it's voters, and the Conservatives only gained 1% more than last time.
My goodness, a 2% loss of support means a party is disappearing because it's leader failed?
No chance.
And a few weeks all this will be forgotten as Starmer takes over and starts mauling Boris at the dispatch box, by then Boris will have made plenty of gaffes to take him to task on.

McCluskey blames Starmer for loosing election. Starmer ( like Blair, Campbell and Kinnock) wanted to campaign on Remain.
If Starmer is appointed leader it will be a step in right direction. (But he is hated by Blairites aswell)
It will be the acid test. If Starmer is appointed it will be against the wishes of McCluskey. So we will see.
I think Labour are doomed, they cant even show a united front now. Its full of waring factions with opposing ideology. How can Corbynistas unite with Blairites? But if they dont, they will descend into oblivion.
They are not capable of uniting under the banner of Labour. You, ve seen it on here. (tory lite, not really labour etc etc)

 

[Woosh]

the Labour party lost just 2% of it's voters, and the Conservatives only gained 1% more than last time.

Labour lost much more than 2% of its voters.
Labour share of votes in 42%, in 2019 32.2%, down 7.8% - nearly 8% of the national votes or 20% of 2017 Labour votes, 23% of 2019 Labour votes.

More than half of those who switched went to the LibDems.
I find no stats on how many Labour votes actually switched to the conservatives but I guess it's about 3%-5% of their 2017 votes.
It's a very significant event.

 

[Zlatan]

Labour lost 20.1% of their votes from 2017.(OG you were out by a factor of 10, but to be fair this doesnt take into account the 1.6% worse turn out, so figure is circa 19%, assuming none turnout was equally distributed)

A figure that already gave them a lost GE.
Wherever they went, they went. Seats wise they lost fewer. They dropped 7.8%.But very damaging as they were already a minority.
There must have been massive regional differences. Our Rothervalley must have seen 80% of labour voters who went go to Tories.??? Thats a guess tho.
Any losses Tories had were made up from Labour heartlands like Rothervalley Durham, Wokington...
Thats the monumental part.

Putting that in perspective. Labour lost 2017 GE and yet 1 in 5 who supported Labour supported someone else in 2019.
The BXP issue was made irrelevant.

 

[Woosh]

There must have been massive regional differences. Our Rothervalley must have seen 80% of labour voters who went go to Tories.??? Thats a guess tho.

not in huge number, 5% switched to Tories.
Con gained 4.8%, LD and Greens gained 5%, Ind 2%, Lab lost 16%. BXP won 12.9% mostly from UKIP.

 

[Zlatan]

not in huge number, 5% switched to Tories.
Con gained 4.8%, LD and Greens gained 5%, Ind 2%, Lab lost 16%. BXP won 12.9% mostly from UKIP.

Is that specific to Rothervalley or overall Woosh?
Found them... Labour lost 16%.Tories plus 5%...

 

[50Hertz]

Well it worked in the sense that a vote was achieved. But it has not worked in any other sense. Things need to made as simple as necessary ,but no simpler.
One sensible decision that BJ has made is in retaining Julien Smith as Secretary for NI ...I suspect this came out of his phone call with Leo Varakar . Smith seems to have gained a measure of respect from the warring factions in NI

I’m afraid it wasn’t simple enough for the Corbyn supporters. They like it really simple. For example:

1) Free money.
2) Less effort = greater reward.
3) We hate those who work.
4) We despise financial responsibility.

The above would have won them the GE.

 

[oldgroaner]

I’m afraid it wasn’t simple enough for the Corbyn supporters. They like it really simple. For example:

1) Free money.
2) Less effort = greater reward.
3) We hate those who work.
4) We despise financial responsibility.

The above would have won them the GE.

You know something you just described Boris perfectly, well done, so why did you vote for him?

 

[Zlatan]

You know something you just described Boris perfectly, well done, so why did you vote for him?

Because Labour were not credible. How many more times OG?

 

[50Hertz]

You know something you just described Boris perfectly, well done, so why did you vote for him?

Because Labour do not represent who Labour are supposed to represent.

Labour consists of wealthy southern luvies who talk in academic terms about the people who they THINK they represent. This leaves a massive body of ordinary, working, PAYE paying people with no one to represent them. Boris Johnson has more appeal if you have a job, pay taxes and want to save a bit for your future, and that’s a big group. That’s why Tony Blair held onto power. If nothing else, he understands workers.

 

[Zlatan]

Bottom line for me is Unions are essential, they serve a fantastic purpose and have improved lives of millions of workers but they shouldnt be running country. Even though I voted Labour I feel had Corbyn got in McCluskey and Unite would have been in control. Country certainly does not want that.

 

[50Hertz]

Bottom line for me is Unions are essential, they serve a fantastic purpose and have improved lives of millions of workers but they shouldnt be running country. Even though I voted Labour I feel had Corbyn got in McCluskey and Unite would have been in control. Country certainly does not want that.

I mostly agree. Unions need to stick to defending and c campaigning for better workers rights. Ending zero hours contracts, better sick pay for workers, greater investment in training, ending situations like "nursing degrees" which is making nurses pay for their own training in disguise. Instead, they are up to their balls side issue crap like house theft, savings theft, investment theft, & gender neutral sausage rolls. UNITE could not have been less interested when my wife needed their support over an enforced contract change. We ended up funding the legal action ourselves, and won. UNITE were busily engaged in an anti-fracking protest. FFS.

 

[Woosh]

2) Less effort = greater reward.

I like that idea myself.

 

[oldgroaner]

Quite hilarious that we have two Leave Votes bewailing the loss of their precious opposition as a consequence of something they "Knew what they were voting for"
Guess you didn't eh chaps?