Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

Labour should have adopted a simple pledge system with a maximum of three clear aims. (1) A second referendum (2) To spend X on the NHS, funded by Y in order to achieve Z (3) To invest X in schools, funded by Y in order to achieve Z. They could have written it on a card and delivered it to people's homes.

Why? The Tories didn't do that and Johnsons's similar wild promises weren't costed either. If what you say is true the people wouldn't have voted for them either. The truth of course is that the GE was about Brexit, exactly as Labour said and exactly as Johnson fought it, as Get Brexit Done. Labour fought it on the far more important things, but the mass of people are just too dumb to understand anything more complicated than a three word slogan.

As OG has said, they've now got the government they deserve and may well come to regret it.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Let me say categorically that this Government was elected quite properly by people who used their vote and own the responsibility for that decision
No political party made them put their cross in a box
I voted Labour and I'm glad I did, it's true that we lost, that's the way it goes.
It isn't the fault of the Labour Party, but of those who voted against them.
It's pointless to attack the personalities involved, it won't change a thing. Nothing in politics stands still and at this time even if we had a strong opposition , they might as well be living on the moon for all the power they have to change things.
Be patient, this Government is no more likely to go full term than the last one, which ate itself.
The only question is whether they do the same thing again or the public do it for them.

 

[oldgroaner]

that's only half true though.
Remain leads consistently in the polls for more than one year now, all JC had to do is to
1. offer a referendum on BJ's deal.
2. tell the electorate how he would vote.

Telling people that he'd vote to remain or for brexit is not vote losing because he has just one vote, no bigger than theirs.

but no, he is stupid enough to say that he'll negotiate his deal without justifying that:
a) his deal is viable. Brexiters don't want it, remainers don't want it either
b) the EU is going to sign up for it.

As Thornbury pointed out, the more he wants to avoid brexit, the more he will be questioned about his brexit at each and every TV interview. Remainers need a more intelligent leader than another Corbynista.

As I said, I'd like a soft brexit and EFTA membership but OG/Flecc/50 etc have convinced me that staying in the middle of the road has no future.

Quite so
"We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run down. "
Aneurin Bevan

 

[oldgroaner]

Just look at the man in charge and weep as he does his equivalent of what have the Romans done for us.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1206935080909901824

Had to imagine that people voted for him
No accounting for taste

 

[Zlatan]

Let me say categorically that this Government was elected quite properly by people who used their vote and own the responsibility for that decision
No political party made them put their cross in a box
I voted Labour and I'm glad I did, it's true that we lost, that's the way it goes.
It isn't the fault of the Labour Party, but of those who voted against them.
It's pointless to attack the personalities involved, it won't change a thing. Nothing in politics stands still and at this time even if we had a strong opposition , they might as well be living on the moon for all the power they have to change things.
Be patient, this Government is no more likely to go full term than the last one, which ate itself.
The only question is whether they do the same thing again or the public do it for them.

I, ve got great news. Instead of me blaming Labour, Flecc blaming tories and OG blaming everybody, Uri Geller has stepped forward to accept responsibility. He, s to blame for Boris, Cameron, Brexit and demise of Labour. He gave some energized spoon to Tories thats the cause of all the problems. Corbyn must have one size of a shovel. So, no more passing blame. Its fecking Geller.
Couldnt get a Christmas tree today. That will be Brexit or Geller. Or Greta.

OG
I, m really pleased you eventually saw sense and voted for a leave supporting party this time.

 

[flecc]

Couldnt get a Christmas tree today.

There's loads of them everywhere, all sizes.

You just need a small saw.
.

 

[50Hertz]

Why? The Tories didn't do that and Johnsons's similar wild promises weren't costed either. If what you say is true the people wouldn't have voted for them either. The truth of course is that the GE was about Brexit, exactly as Labour said and exactly as Johnson fought it, as Get Brexit Done. Labour fought it on the far more important things, but the mass of people are just too dumb to understand anything more complicated than a three word slogan.

As OG has said, they've now got the government they deserve and may well come to regret it.
.

Johnson’s promises, although wild, were not as wild as Labour’s. £58 billion on a fag-packet plan, free internet access, £6K+ for households. Nobody believed that.

Listening to radio interviews with senior Labour figures, I’m pretty sure they have learned FA, blame the voters and will elect a Corbyn clone as leader, probably a woman with a comedy northern accent, to **** off and patronise the northern voting areas.

You couldn’t make this stuff up. Out of touch doesn’t even come close.

 

[Zlatan]

Johnson’s promises, although wild, were not as wild as Labour’s. £58 billion on a fag-packet plan, free internet access, £6K+ for households. Nobody believed that.

Listening to radio interviews with senior Labour figures, I’m pretty sure they have learned FA, blame the voters and will elect a Corbyn clone as leader, probably a woman with a comedy northern accent, to **** off and patronise the northern voting areas.

You couldn’t make this stuff up. Out of touch doesn’t even come close.

I, m afraid much of society has gone same. Tick box promotions, PC targets and snowflake perceptions. Labour seem to typify it.
I didnt vote for Boris but in some ways he, s a breath of fresh air, even his couldnt care less background and womanising. He is far from PC.
I, m reserving judgement for 3 years. Lets see.

 

[flecc]

Listening to radio interviews with senior Labour figures, I’m pretty sure they have learned FA, blame the voters and will elect a Corbyn clone as leader, probably a woman with a comedy northern accent, to **** off and patronise the northern voting areas.

It doesn't matter what they do Eventually the public will finally lose patience with the Tories and vote Labour in again, as the history shows.

The Tories will have had 14 years by the end of this term, probably as long as they'll manage to stay there.
.

 

[flecc]

I, m afraid much of society has gone same. Tick box promotions, PC targets and snowflake perceptions. Labour seem to typify it.

So Labour the perfect governemnt for them, only they failed to recognise it and vote Labour.

Perhaps that's because they are stupid? That is what you seem to be saying.
.

 

[50Hertz]

I, m afraid much of society has gone same. Tick box promotions, PC targets and snowflake perceptions. Labour seem to typify it.
I didnt vote for Boris but in some ways he, s a breath of fresh air, even his couldnt care less background and womanising.
I, m reserving judgement for 3 years. Lets see.

I’m pretty much the same. The Tory party isn’t particularly appetising, but Labour in its current form is a complete non-starter for me. You can hear them in their interviews, they have a fixed perception and a set of ideals and there is no way on earth they are going to listen to the electorate. If you disagree with them they will screen “hate crime” “racist” and other venom at you, I’ve heard them do it during interviews. The party needs a deep caustic soda cleansing to wash the scum away, and there is some very nasty scum in the party.

I’m going to remain open minded about the lying cheating BoJo and see what he does now he’s won the prize he do dearly wanted.

 

[50Hertz]

It doesn't matter what they do Eventually the public will finally lose patience with the Tories and vote Labour in again, as the history shows.

The Tories will have had 14 years by the end of this term, probably as long as they'll manage to stay there.
.

Maybe, maybe not. If Labour go then way they sound like they are going, they won’t be in power for another 10 years, at least. They’ve really lost the plot on this cycle of government.

People just want to go to work, earn some money, build a bit of security and make life choices. Labour want to take that away, confiscating ownership in utility companies, stealing second homes, closing the option for people to invest in private education. Then wasting the proceeds on £58 billion fag-packet Diane Abbottesque schemes. Vile people.

 

[Danidl]

I think the WASPI bribes lost credibility for Corbyn. Its timing was poor, planning short and intended targets unlikely to generate sympathy.

I had to look up this topic. A view is that there was a theft of 5 years pension contributions from 3.8 million people. Now 58 billion is a lot of money which is 15k per person . It would come from current taxation, and would inevitably recirculate as increased spending and taxes ,so its impact on the public purse would be minimised. Now if the argument about unfairness is correct,then why were you against it. If it is money due it is no bribe

 

[oldgroaner]

I, ve got great news. Instead of me blaming Labour, Flecc blaming tories and OG blaming everybody, Uri Geller has stepped forward to accept responsibility. He, s to blame for Boris, Cameron, Brexit and demise of Labour. He gave some energized spoon to Tories thats the cause of all the problems. Corbyn must have one size of a shovel. So, no more passing blame. Its fecking Geller.
Couldnt get a Christmas tree today. That will be Brexit or Geller. Or Greta.

OG
I, m really pleased you eventually saw sense and voted for a leave supporting party this time.

Are you having one of your "turns" by any chance? what leave voting party, I voted for a party that offered the chance of a referendum

 

[oldgroaner]

Maybe, maybe not. If Labour go then way they sound like they are going, they won’t be in power for another 10 years, at least. They’ve really lost the plot on this cycle of government.

People just want to go to work, earn some money, build a bit of security and make life choices. Labour want to take that away, confiscating ownership in utility companies, stealing second homes, closing the option for people to invest in private education. Then wasting the proceeds on £58 billion fag-packet Diane Abbottesque schemes. Vile people.

Most labour supporters don't own second homes and send their kids for private education, and the Conservatives want to steal the home they do have to pay for care in old age.
So you can shove that argument where the sun doesn't shine.
No sympathy at all for second homes and private education.
Vile people...perfect Description of the Conservatives party.

 

[50Hertz]

No sympathy at all for second homes and private education.

Which means a hatred of people who work hard, pay taxes and make sacrifices to invest in their futures. Yep, that’s Labour.

Carry on, it’s all the fault of the voters.

 

[Zlatan]

Sir John Curtice reveals why Labour massively 'suffered' in election

THE LABOUR PARTY’s disastrous election night result was down to "a combination of two things", polling expert Sir John Curtice has claimed.

www.express.co.uk

Yes, its reported in Express but bloke writing report has no allegiance one way or another.
Report also informs us very few voters actually switched from Labour to BXP, and that Labour lost both Remain and Leave supporters.

 

[oyster]

If what you say is true the people wouldn't have voted for them either.

In so many ways, that was the problem.

Few of us had an option that we actually wanted. Well aware that there are great difficulties in ensuring that everyone does indeed have an acceptable candidate, even if we allow "write-in" as a valid option we have to somehow know the possibilities.

 

[Zlatan]

Are you having one of your "turns" by any chance? what leave voting party, I voted for a party that offered the chance of a referendum

You are joking arent you. You actually still think Labour were a Remain party. Rubbish. They had no idea what they were. That was the problem. They might have been, but then again might not. Find me one shred of evidence suggesting Labour supported Remain. They strongly supported Leave with their 2017 Manifesto but suggesting theu were going to offer a referendum means nothing. Besides, people didnt want another referendum.
You voted for a Leave party masquerading behind a referendum. No mp in the house wanted to leave more than Corbyn. Due diligence of his past would tell you that. What the party wanted was different but Corbyn decided policy. Its exactly why they lost Leave and Remain voters and gained... Almost none from anywhere.

 

[Zlatan]

In so many ways, that was the problem.

Few of us had an option that we actually wanted. Well aware that there are great difficulties in ensuring that everyone does indeed have an acceptable candidate, even if we allow "write-in" as a valid option we have to somehow know the possibilities.

So why werent you lobbying Labour to support Remain. Campbell,, Kinnock and Blair all wanted them to.
Its been the greatest travesty of this entire episode that Labour did not campaign on remain. In both elections.
If I had been a Remainer I, d be furious. You were left with Jo Swinson to represent you. An utter disgrace at every level.
The Labour party chose to ignore lots of public feeling (the million people march), Alistair Campbell, Tony Blair and even all 3 Kinnocks. It was probably because Blair and Campbell were saying it but the Kinnocks??? (who BTW were not expelled from Labour party for voting LibDem at EU) whereas Campbell was. And then we actually have to wonder why Labour lost so many voters. Incredible. Its obvious.Media had nothing at all to do with it.
They lost the support of their best known ambassadors and still went on in same manner. Did Corbyn ask Glenys Kinnock and Campbell why they supported LibDems?? No, they decided they weren't proper Labour and carried on.
Unless ofcourse Kinnock, Campbell and Blair bought into Daily Mail rubbish. Or perhaps BBC propoganda put them off Labour. Or perhaps they are thick northerners.