Brexit, for once some facts.

oldgroaner

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It didn’t work for TM. Same circumstances, different team, different outcome.
Not so. There has been much greater external criticism of Corbyn by the Jews for instance and a far more intense campaign in the papers and online, plus of course some convenient turncoats who surfaced out of the woodwork of the Labour party.
Strange they suddenly decided to do that, eh?
 
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oldgroaner

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Interesting that the Adam Smith Institute and European Research Group drones (including of course Mogg) kept their heads down during the Election so as not to poison Boris's chances, now they are going to creep out of their burrows to vie for who gets to lead Cummings and his donkey.
Will they prevent Boris bottling it and achieve their No deal Brexit he promised them for their support?
 
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oldgroaner

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oldgroaner

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I have only ever voted Labour, admittedly reluctantly this time. Bit time for us all to move on and give Boris chance to carry out his claims.
Which claims have you in mind? so many and so variable, it's hard to keep up.
 

50Hertz

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Interesting that the Adam Smith Institute and European Research Group drones (including of course Mogg) kept their heads down during the Election so as not to poison Boris's chances, now they are going to creep out of their burrows to vie for who gets to lead Cummings and his donkey.
Will they prevent Boris bottling it and achieve their No deal Brexit he promised them for their support?
Did he? Did he promise them a no deal Brexit? Their influence is very much diminished now. Johnson might crap all over them and go for a very soft Brexit. The one he’s wanted all along.
 
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50Hertz

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Not so. There has been much greater external criticism of Corbyn by the Jews for instance and a far more intense campaign in the papers and online, plus of course some convenient turncoats who surfaced out of the woodwork of the Labour party.
Strange they suddenly decided to do that, eh?
That doesn’t just happen by standing idly by. It’s driven by a team, and in this instance, a team put together by Johnson.
 

Zlatan

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Did he? Did he promise them a no deal Brexit? Their influence is very much diminished now. Johnson might crap all over them and go for a very soft Brexit. The one he’s wanted all along.
Its thought JRM wont make cabinet. Tories have simply used DUP and in an odd way ERG to keep in power.
Boris has enough support to now show his own political stance. Like I said earlier, give him a chance. Criticizing now is immature.
I certainly dont like him, or perhaps even trust him, but his speech yesterday was good, he is under more pressure than previous strong Tory PMs to carry out election pledges and its very very early days in what could be a long term.
Its not what I wanted but there has been a rather more steady nature already to proceedings.
Lets see if he finds his extra nurses, 40 hospitals, etc etc.
Time for us all to stop the criticisms, calm down and move on from a sad affair.
(no criticism of you 50 intended, I, m actually agreeing with you)
Labour need to have a good look at themselves. If they don't get away from their union control, diminish the power of McCluskey, close down momentum and start representing the real nature and beliefs of Labour voters they will become an insignificance. Its a strange situation when thousands of workers represented by McCluskey (largest union in country Unite) dont vote labour. Whats next stop their union fees? If labour dont change we could witness the demise of the unions? Workers have voted for the men sat at other side of desk in union conflicts. That says a lot about peoples' dissent for labour. Jonathon Powel, Jo Tanner, Alistair Campbell all summed up their defeat perfectly. Its not just Corbyn its the whole charade. Mostwidely supported party in the country get so few seats is a disgrace to the movement.
 
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Woosh

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The BXP also has a part but by and large, it's the remainer parties, especially the LD, that won it for Bojo.

LD: +4%
Green: +1%
SNP: +1%

They account for 6% of -7.8% Labour vote loss. The BXP added the 2%.
Bojo did achieve tactical win but not necessarily through popular votes.

Remainers deserted JC for the right reason but wrong strategy. As I said before, nobody stops brexit more than Corbyn.
 
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Zlatan

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The BXP also has a part but by and large, it's the remainer parties, especially the LD, that won it for Bojo.
Remainers deserted JC for the right reason but wrong strategy. As I said before, nobody stops brexit more than Corbyn.
I agree but if you remove the BXP affect there is still a massive swing to Tory. Would those BXP voters have voted for Corbyn? Doubtful. They would have just tactically voted elsewhere or supported Boris. Same point was discussed yesterday on radio. Cant remember who but one speaker reckoned labour had done so badly without BXP Boris would have done better.???
Argument makes sense, Labour attracted so few voters, why would those voting BXP go to Corbyn.??(statistically 1 in 3 would)
But we just dont know. We are where we are, without a labour party, a very strong Tory govt and a disparate opposition.
For last 3 years we have criticised the lack of opposition. That situation has just got worse. Imagine a discussio in HoC now??? (no Skinner!!)
 
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oldgroaner

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Just because he's a Scot (or says he is who knows) - he thinks he knows what the other millions of Scots were thinking.

Yes - he is that deluded.
And you wh is not a Scot is even more deluded to think he knows better?
Another bit of English arrogance
 

oldgroaner

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I think Johnson is a liberal Tory at heart. Now he has a large 80 seat majority, he can put The ERG in a box and put a brick on the lid.
He still has to contend with the vile Adam Smith Institute, so don't get your hopes up
 

oldgroaner

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Much analysis going on as to How Boris is going to keep his new Labour conquests on side.
This may prove something of a problem as they are expecting marvellous changes, which the liar has no intention of providing simply because his masters won't let him even if he wants to.
Remember Murdoch's famous comment
"If promises aren't kept there will be trouble?"
 
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Zlatan

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Much analysis going on as to How Boris is going to keep his new Labour conquests on side.
This may prove something of a problem as they are expecting marvellous changes, which the liar has no intention of providing simply because his masters won't let him even if he wants to.
Remember Murdoch's famous comment
"If promises aren't kept there will be trouble?"
No, they arent. They are simply expecting attempts to do so. Besides, if they desert him who do they vote for? They are only there because nobody was representing them. That is not going to change for years. When Corbyn said he was staying another year Tory big wigs just thought that's another years grace we have.
Boris has 5 years to do as he pleases. Can Labour get back to being a credible opposition in that time? I dont think so. Tories will win next GE immaterial of Brexit affects even if Boris achieves nothing. There isnt any oppostion.
 

oldgroaner

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No he does not, not at all.
Didn't you see OJ's comments?
And as was pointed out this morning The Conservatives are a coalition, not simply Cummings policy instrument

and you imagine he is free as a bird to do what he likes?
With a party where there are lobbyist funds from clashing interests behind his MP's?
:cool:
That was what nobbled him last time and will again.
 
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oldgroaner

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No, they arent. They are simply expecting attempts to do so. Besides, if they desert him who do they vote for? They are only there because nobody was representing them. That is not going to change for years. When Corbyn said he was staying another year Tory big wigs just thought that's another years grace we have.
Boris has 5 years to do as he pleases. Can Labour get back to being a credible opposition in that time? I dont think so. Tories will win next GE immaterial of Brexit affects even if Boris achieves nothing. There isnt any oppostion.
The significant sentence there is nobody was representing them, That is not going to change in years.

Remember that. They were promised change at the referendum, it didn't happen so they put pressure on by another protest vote.
"If promises aren't kept there will be trouble" said Murdoch back then...the opposition he will face isn't necessarily where he is expecting it to come from if he makes a balls up

You haven't seen the last of Farage...
Nor of the huge number of remainers no one gives a damn about.
 
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