Brexit, for once some facts.

[OxygenJames]

This is an incredibly significant election result - its been the passing of power from one core-establishment - to the next. Since John Major in 1993, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, Michael H, etc this country has been governed by a centre-left and centre-right set of leaders - that's gone. Completely gone.

The conservative party that has won is a very different party to one we have ever seen - it's less metropolitan, less Southern - less bourgeoisie. It's now more working class - more Northern, more provincial more small towns and cities - that's a whole new establishment coming in there.

On the labour party side - Corbyn and his cronies have lost big time - so that whole establishment is out too.

We have a whole new power-structure in this country.

You could say up till now there have been 2 transformative elections - in 1945 with the Attlee government (where Labour took over from Winston Churchil) - the next of course was the arrival of M Thatcher in 1979. We can now add a third to that list.

All provoked by Brexit and its consequences.

 

[Danidl]

And in other news.. the Majority of MPs elected in NI are non Unionist... The Alliance party has no position on the Union. And the DUP got the drubbing which I predicted. The Brexit position is unpopular in NI ,the Johnson Brexit even more so.
And in other other news ,the success of the SNP will make Hadrian's wall a potential GB EU land border ..a bit far fetched perhaps but within the bounds of possibility.

 

[flecc]

This is an incredibly significant election result - its been the passing of power from one core-establishment - to the next. Since John Major in 1993, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, Michael H, etc this country has been governed by a centre-left and centre-right set of leaders - that's gone. Completely gone.

The conservative party that has won is a very different party to one we have ever seen - it's less metropolitan, less Southern - less bourgeoisie. It's now more working class - more Northern, more provincial more small towns and cities - that's a whole new establishment coming in there.

On the labour party side - Corbyn and his cronies have lost big time - so the whole establishment is out too.

We have a whole new power-structure in this country.

You could say up till now there have been 2 transformative elections - in 1945 with the Attlee government (where Labour took over from Winston Churchil) - the next of course was the arrival of M Thatcher in 1979. We can now add a third to that list.

All provoked by Brexit and its consequences.

All very true, and it fits with what I was forecasting a long time ago, that we are on a trend towards US style politics with a choice of two right wing parties, moderate and far right.
A more centre right party will probably emerge from Labour now, more akin to Blair's, but they will only win power if the far right policies fail.
.

 

[flecc]

This is what your Labour has done. Given us most right wing government for 50 years with a 78 majority.

London bucked the national trend as Labour held firm against the swing to the Conservatives.

And of course London is by far the most successful part of the country.

I hope the rest of the country will be happy to continue with their failure, they've voted for that since it's more of the same.
.

 

[flecc]

Never heard of it

Croydon is London's largest borough and one of the largest in the country by population.
.

 

[flecc]

Let's put this Tory win into perspective,

They are the Conservative and Unionist Party.

They have achieved Scotland's government there and in Westminster determined to leave the Union. They have achieved Northern Ireland swinging strongly to nationalists and the unionist vote collapsing.

That isn't success for the United Kingdom, it's failure. The Kingdom and its peoples have never been more divided and will continue to be.

And all because of Boris Johnson.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Croydon is London's largest borough and one of the largest in the country by population.
.

Sounds horrible.

 

[Zlatan]

Let's put this Tory win into perspective,

They are the Conservative and Unionist Party.

They have achieved Scotland's government there and in Westminster determined to leave the Union. They have achieved Northern Ireland swinging strongly to nationalists and the unionist vote collapsing.

That isn't success for the United Kingdom, it's failure. The Kingdom and its peoples have never been more divided and will continue to be.

And all because of Boris Johnson.
.

I, d agree with that completely if you changed BJ to Corbyn.
I agree with OJ. There has been a watershed moment. Lets hope the new Conservative supporters produce a change in attitude at MP level.
All those historically labour voters supporting BJ will desert him if he doesnt offer not just hope but something solid.

 

[oldgroaner]

Its called democracy OG. The country by a decisive margin wants to leave. They have just supported Boris to do so. Thats why I said wake up.
And, no I dont blame leavers for voting to leave at all as you still do. I blame Labour for not accomodating the electorate and giving us strongest Tory govt since Thatcher. A government that could quite easily be more right wing than she was. Labour are a disgrace. They will never recover.
How on earth did Labour lose Durham. Think about it, instead of saying same old rubbish.

 

[oldgroaner]

Never heard of it and who is Corbyn.
If Labour doesnt change we, ll be saying same about Party too.
Mr Johnson has just visited Queen, she, s asked him to form a government. This Mr Corbyn you mention, whoever he is, will probably be planning an allotment,in his pretend council house.
View attachment 33367
This is what your Labour has done. Given us most right wing government for 50 years with a 78 majority. Well done.
The small bits of red are Labour. The blue is Conservative.
But its Trump, Farage, Johnson, Murdock, Daily Mail, Russian Bots and Queenie to blame. Not momentum at all.
And this was Thatchers.
View attachment 33368
Johnson has actually gained in English heart land "labour" over Thatcher. She never got Rothervalley, Durham and many others. (I dont think she got Nottinghill but Johnson has)
All because of Corbyn.

No Zlatan , Voting for Brexit led inevitably to this.
They won, etc etc.
And all is now going to be as forecast, with a disastrous regime causing massive distress to the public
But then "They know what they are voting for" and are doing the very same thing they did at the referendum, voting without due diligence.

 

[oldgroaner]

Too late for your cries of anguish now it's time to watch the show a vote for Brexit bought

 

[Zlatan]

Same old same old OG. For goodness sake try and move on and say something new.
And BTW the person we both voted for is a leaver and the irony and consequences of that is lost on you. Its exactly why labour vote collapsed. He lost leavers and remainers. Now that takes some doing.
You are missing point that Tories, much as they won, only increased vote by 1%. Labour collapsed, even with both yours and my support. Now ask yourself why?
Move on OG. You are starting to show yourself up.
BJ did not win. Corbyn lost.
You voted for a leaver so stop trying to blame leave voters for a situation Labour have created by being unable to have any coherent stance on Brexit.

 

[oldgroaner]

Same old same old OG. For goodness sake try and move on and say something new.
And BTW the person we both voted for is a leaver and the irony and consequences of that is lost on you. Its exactly why labour vote collapsed. He lost leavers and remainers. Now that takes some doing.
You are missing point that Tories, much as they won, only increased vote by 1%. Labour collapsed, even with both yours and my support. Now ask yourself why?
Move on OG. You are starting to show yourself up.
BJ did not win. Corbyn lost.
You voted for a leaver so stop trying to blame leave voters for a situation Labour have created by being unable to have any coherent stance on Brexit.

For goodness sake do give up with this lament I voted for a leaver on the faint hope that there would be enough support for a second referendum
So what other choice was there?
Needs must when the Devil drives

 

[oldgroaner]

I, d agree with that completely if you changed BJ to Corbyn.
I agree with OJ. There has been a watershed moment. Lets hope the new Conservative supporters produce a change in attitude at MP level.
All those historically labour voters supporting BJ will desert him if he doesnt offer not just hope but something solid.

No chance of anything other than downhill all the way, is there?

 

[Zlatan]

For goodness sake do give up with this lament I voted for a leaver on the faint hope that there would be enough support for a second referendum
So what other choice was there?
Needs must when the Devil drives

The choice was taken away by Corbyn, but amazingly he took it away from both sides of Brexit divide.
Tories united the leave vote. Corbyn split both.
I suggest you turn tele on and look whats happened.

 

[oldgroaner]

Let's put this Tory win into perspective,

They are the Conservative and Unionist Party.

They have achieved Scotland's government there and in Westminster determined to leave the Union. They have achieved Northern Ireland swinging strongly to nationalists and the unionist vote collapsing.

That isn't success for the United Kingdom, it's failure. The Kingdom and its peoples have never been more divided and will continue to be.

And all because of Boris Johnson.
.

It won't be long before the obviously ghastly flaws of his second hand deal force him to do as we forecast way back, trot out May's deal again polished and with sprinkles

 

[Zlatan]

No chance of anything other than downhill all the way, is there?

Probably. We will see. And if you really believe that why did you vote Corbyn? He wasnt saying he, d remain was he.

 

[vfr400]

who is he? could he be a bot on youtube? Never seen him on TV.

He's a professor of information studies - the guy that knows what he's talking about, and he's always right so there's no argument.

 

[Zlatan]

It won't be long before the obviously ghastly flaws of his second hand deal force him to do as we forecast way back, trot out May's deal again polished and with sprinkles

Jesus OG. I, m putting you on ignore. FFS move on. Times have changed. He can get any deal he wants through. A majority of 78...He,s a Tory hero.
You are doing the labour trick. Just say same stuff. Again and again.
Listen to Maitlain now. An idiotic labour saying same things.

 

[flecc]

Sounds horrible.

It's far from it. Croydon was in rather rural Surrey until London was enlarged by the Tories to become Greater London, in an attempt by gerrymandering to make London more Tory. That failed of course.

The central commercial district with it's many tower blocks is horrible, but most is very unlike that. I have on the west side woodlands and beyond that a golf course, on the east side a large nature reserve and a few yards to the south the Surrey border with country all the way to the south coast.

The below all taken from the windows of my ground floor flat. It's in the middle of a large housing estate, but you'd hardly know it looking out: