Brexit, for once some facts.

Fingers

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 9, 2016
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If you think that you ,or I are anonymous while posting on line, you are sadly mistaken. You used IP addresses and unless your postings were all done from internet cafés or using clever VPNs ,all is findable. Ditto with everything I have written on this and other fora. Now it would not be my intention to persue this line..life is far too short. In the course of all my postings to this site ,I can be uniquely identified ..my Village, my education , my interests etc. So yes I do have a position. The only protection is that nobody is likely to bother.

Regarding Racism. Calling someone a leprechaun would count. Your comments regarding Ireland were demonstrably offensive. It is the classical excuse of the bully that it was all in jest.

I am glad that we can agree that there are some state organisations which are examplars of good practice,and I would bow to your superior knowledge regarding the CAA.

You have different laws regarding hate speech in Ireland.

Plus because you are Irish our laws would not apply to you unless you lived here. If you made an allegation it would be ignored unless it was terror related.

I'm afraid you are wrong on this one.
 

50Hertz

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 2, 2019
2,199
2,403
If you think that you ,or I are anonymous while posting on line, you are sadly mistaken. You used IP addresses and unless your postings were all done from internet cafés or using clever VPNs ,all is findable. Ditto with everything I have written on this and other fora. Now it would not be my intention to persue this line..life is far too short. In the course of all my postings to this site ,I can be uniquely identified ..my Village, my education , my interests etc. So yes I do have a position. The only protection is that nobody is likely to bother.

Regarding Racism. Calling someone a leprechaun would count. Your comments regarding Ireland were demonstrably offensive. It is the classical excuse of the bully that it was all in jest.

I am glad that we can agree that there are some state organisations which are examplars of good practice,and I would bow to your superior knowledge regarding the CAA.
I never said it was in jest.
Leprechaun racist? Thin.
Insulting your IP address? Even thinner.

You need to accept this forum for what it is. Anonymous people arguing, agreeing, disagreeing, insulting, complementing each other. If real names and addresses were used, I’d agree with your post above.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Sweden has little state owned companies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_government_enterprises_of_Sweden
and the benefit 'from the society they create' does not pay interest on our borrowings, our children will.
It's not all about the economy and personal wealth, Sweden has been voted happiest country previously and some of the happiest peoples are relatively poor.

And you still have those blinkers on. The benefits of a happier, more equitable society are often very tangible and therefore can pay interest.

And as for future cost, how about Blair's PFI and all the derivative Tory ways of spending the future's money? Are they ok because Corbyn didn't create them?
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Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
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Ireland
I never said it was in jest.
Leprechaun racist? Thin.
Insulting your IP address? Even thinner.

You need to accept this forum for what it is. Anonymous people arguing, agreeing, disagreeing, insulting, complementing each other. If real names and addresses were used, I’d agree with your post above.
Rephrase.. people who think they are ànonymous, .. My comment about jest was preemptive. I said that IP addresses allowed people to be uniquely identified. In the greater scheme of things this is all very small beer.
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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Comparing Attlee to Corbyn is actually insulting to all Attlee achieved and what a statesman he was.
And they always forget 2 things...
Attlee instigated our nuclear detterent. (Corbyn couldnt make the decision to either cancel Trident or instigate it if we didnt have it)
And secondly... As much as Attlee did revolutionise Social care, health care and our Natinal Parks, perhaps our country may well have been more successful had it invested less in NHS and more in transforming our by now antiquated industry with the cash from Marshall plan. Germany put far less into social welfare, in more of a Tory doctrine way, and in years to come took advantage of their superior position to ourselves.
Perhaps we could now compete with Germany had we not had labour mis spending after the war years?
 
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Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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And you still have those blinkers on.
I wonder why you think that.

He promises free this, free that while putting the charge on the national credit card.
JC simply lacks the courage to ask voters to pay more taxes for a fairer society.
He makes me think of those TV commercials selling payday loans.
 
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Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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I wonder why you think that.

He promises free this, free that while putting the charge on the national credit card.
JC simply lacks the courage to ask voters to pay more taxes for a fairer society.
He makes me think of those TV commercials selling payday loans.
I think its Flecc with pink tinted glasses rather than you in blinkers when it comes to Corbyn...
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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Comparing Attlee to Corbyn is actually insulting to all Attlee achieved and what a statesman he was.
And they always forget 2 things...
Attlee instigated our nuclear detterent. (Corbyn couldnt make the decision to either cancel Trident or instigate it if we didnt have it)
And secondly... As much as Attlee did revolutionise Social care, health care and our Natinal Parks, perhaps our country may well have been more successful had it invested less in NHS and more in transforming our by now antiquated industry with the cash from Marshall plan. Germany put far less into social welfare, in more of a Tory doctrine way, and in years to come took advantage of their superior position to ourselves.
Perhaps we could now compete with Germany had we not had labour mis spending after the war years?
It's no good blaming Labour for the Conservatives incompetence, there was plenty of money from North sea gas, and they pocketed it.
British Management and the parasitic Shareholder class demanding ever greater profit scuppered any chance of Industrial revival post war, greed and unwillingness to change guaranteed that, as it will scupper Brexit, and is the reason I never believed in Brexit in the first place.
It is Tory ideas that are the ruin of this country , middle class incompetence and an unwillingness to take risks, not the level of investment available.
The damage to this country was not done by Labour Governments, there haven't been any since the Atlee government, but by your "Middle ground" politicians, both New labour and Tory trying to be cautious when courage was required.
Too many Managers, paid huge salaries for failure, shareholders milking the system, and not enough visionaries with ideas that are being invested in, and for that reason we will fail again.
The motivation is profit at any cost, so long as the poor do the paying for the consequences.
And look at the clowns that are running the country.
You would have to believe in miracles to expect post Brexit prosperity.
 

Woosh

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It is Tory ideas that are the ruin of this country , middle class incompetence and an unwillingness to take risks, not the level of investment available.
it's the lazy expectation that property goes up in price that is the ruin of this country.
 

Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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I think its Flecc with pink tinted glasses rather than you in blinkers when it comes to Corbyn...
I think Flecc knows very well the score, he does not expect JC to succeed, just make people take the plunge.
I wonder where we've seen all this before.
 

oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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it's the lazy expectation that property goes up in price that is the ruin of this country.
A central tenet of Tory policy,creating a class of Tory minded mortgage slaves, and very effective it has been too.
The most sensible thing would be to make property depreciate in value , not spiral upwards in value , locking vast reserves out of the system.
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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I wonder why you think that.

He promises free this, free that while putting the charge on the national credit card.
JC simply lacks the courage to ask voters to pay more taxes for a fairer society.
Come now, which one of them doesn't do that, it's the name of the game and Corbyn, like the rest, won't keep all his promises.

But like all those following the herd, you only attack Corbyn for it. Haven't you noticed Johnsons insane range of promises which cannot and will not be kept?

Johnson is still in danger of leading us into a disastrously costly exit from the EU, Corbyn has no intention of doing that, his vision of how to leave with trading intact being far safer.
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50Hertz

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 2, 2019
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Johnson is still in danger of leading us into a disastrously costly exit from the EU, Corbyn has no intention of doing that, his vision of how to leave with trading intact being far safer.
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That’s the only attractive prospect to a Corbyn government. The rest is too ghastly to contemplate.
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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I think Flecc knows very well the score, he does not expect JC to succeed, just make people take the plunge.
I have wanted to see Corbyn succeed in getting into power to create some balance against the toryism we've been suffering and have posted as much many times.

But as I've again posted, now that Farage has sabotaged this coming election, there's almost no hope of that. All I can hope for now is that the Labour vote is still strong enough to make the Tories take note and prevent their worst extremes.

I do not want nor have ever wanted to see continuous Labour or Tory governments since neither is good for this country as history has shown. But I do want to enjoy what is best from both with the harm each do kept in moderation.

That's why I've historically voted both ways, actually more times for the Tories than for Labour, though you might not think that now.
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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That’s the only attractive prospect to a Corbyn government. The rest is too ghastly to contemplate.
What rest?

How much do you think he could do in five years?

The answer is only a very small amount in present circumstances, especially as he'd be restrained by the EU with the type of departure he favours.
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Woosh

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What rest?

How much do you think he could do in five years?

The answer is only a very small amount in present circumstances, especially as he'd be restrained by the EU with the type of departure he favours.
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JC should know that too.
Continued access to the single market is predicated to level playing field - state intervention like re-nationalisation of the utilities and BT would end up in the ECJ.
He knows it and waffles on about giving free this and free that.
 
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Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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OG
I assume you, ll now be voting for Labour from you last post?
I actually agree Tories played their part in destroying British industry, the combined incompetence of both Parties gave British Industry little chance of real progress. (I actually worked for BL in early 70's and witnessed the stupidity at every level from top to bottom and the part over powerful unions played)
But the rot had started years before.
The Tories simply refused to put money into already failed and ild fashioned practices.
The fantastic years you talk of from Atlee oversaw the real decline. (ie pre 1955). He really should have oversaw much more industrial investment along side social welfare. One without the other cant work,as the 70's demonstrated.
Who will you be voting for OG?
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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The fantastic years you talk of from Atlee oversaw the real decline. (ie pre 1955).
I agree with almost all your post, but the above is wrong. The post war labour government lost it's majority in the 1950 GE, leaving them unable to govern and then losing the 1951 GE.

In that hectic post war five years of office they had, they could not have possibly created the decline. Nor could they have wasted the Marshall Aid money on their measures since they were all started before that aid started to flow to any degree. Harry Truman only signed to approve the aid in 1948, three years after Attlee came into office.

Of course we should have had some industrial investment from the Marshal Aid money, but most of that money was spent by the Tory governments of Churchill and Eden, so blame them.

In any case, that Aid was only $17 billion across the whole of Europe, equivalent to around $198 billion today, hardly enough to achieve much more than emergency help all across Europe.

As I've posted many times before, our decline started between the two world wars, arguably even in Edwardian times, and all of it due to over dependence on an Empire forced to accept our often inadequate products. As the empire disappeared, mostly after Attlee left office, our exports failed and our industries collapsed due to that and superior foreign products later coming into our home market.
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