technically, yes, you are saying that fraud Is wrong (now that we have managed to make you do so). but, it all started with us presenting evidence of Farage's fraud, and your saying "everyone does it". that is dangerous. it's the same as overlooking his attempt to derail proper democratic protocol in trying to speak for the uk with trump. it's all about accountability, not having double standards, not being blind to what is really going on. brexit involved shedloads of that (lies, lack of accountability, saying "what's the worst that can happen", the public being hoodwinked).
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Err OG Derf.
Tillson is the more reasoned one in the past few pages.
Could you try to up your anti and refrain from slurs, holocaust type comments.
Thanks
Tillson is the more reasoned one in the past few pages.
Could you try to up your anti and refrain from slurs, holocaust type comments.
Thanks
i disagree. I also, with respect, speak for myself, in the way that feels right for me. feel free to put a disagree or dislike next to my post. beyond that i'm afraid it's a matter of I wont tell you what to think or say and you wont tell me.
Mrs May made first contact with a phone call, Mr Trump received him, I don't believe there is a law preventing him to talk to him or any other party leader, where did I support anarchy or treason, there is no war between the USA and the UK and I very much doubt that the conversation was about State matters unless you where privy to them.
You missed the point yet again, and no doubt will refuse to do so whatever Farage does, it seems anything goes.
Derf did post 6620.
Farage may be a right wing nut but like any pressure group he will be granted an audience, and as his politics are sufficiently close to trump having a meeting of like minded individuals is no surprise.
Trump knows that May represents the government/finance industries.
I may disagree with tillson but he is currently arguing with more class.
This is in fact what I wrote
"What you are supporting is anarchy and little short of treason by the person making these personal advances."
Two separate statements.
What you are supporting is anarchy
What else is it when someone jumps in to grab the limelight from the Government and self promote his agenda unofficially?
That is Anarchy, and you think it's OK
I pointed out that this could well occur when a tense situation exists and that anyone prepared to place himself before the Government is indeed exceeding his rights and trampling over ours to be properly represented, not by some self appointed "Hero" and that is little short of treason by the person making these personal advances.
Farage went to America to promote himself as usual
"http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/730276/Nigel-Farage-Donald-Trump-EU-job-ambassador
And what was the reaction from the UK Government?
"Crispin Blunt, chairman of the foreign affairs select committee, described as "completely implausible" the idea that Mr Farage would have an ambassadorial role in a Trump administration , telling the BBC there was "no need for Nigel".
Can you imagine the danger involved in these machinations?
well, that's your opinion. have a look at this
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37965089
it's good, independent journalism.
you may note that I am not telling you what you can or cannot say. I would add that referring to obfuscation (about the only thing tillson seems to do) as good arguing isn't a very good sign, to put it politely.
Nor am I, just asking to avoid insults and wasteful exchanges.
I'm not on Tillsons side, I just want you to improve your arguments.
It is the damage Farage can do that is my concern, he is very much a loose cannon, and so is Trump, it may be no surprise, it isn't to me, but the timing was calculated as a slight on May's premiership and nothing will convince me otherwise.
He is literally challenging her authority in the most blatant way.
"If you don't produce the Brexit I want, a word in someone's ear will make your plans impossible. is the implied threat"
I am astonished you don't see that.
Farage has set himself up with an improved power base
Tillson arguing with more class? smooth evasions,ignoring wrongdoing on Farage's part because others do it
tillson has a talent for that , but cannot conceal that his interest will discount wrongdoing by Farage as long as he is the champion of the Brexit cause.
The good old "The end justifies the means" rides again.
yet another point of view. for me classifying deliberate obfuscation as improving our arguments is a mistake. sometimes one has to call things what they are. rationalising Farage's corruption or trump's racism is not a step forward, in any possible sense.Nor am I, just asking to avoid insults and wasteful exchanges.
I'm not on Tillsons side, I just want you to improve your arguments.
Wow! I love that one.....I don't understand it but it sounds good! It's a new one on me and there must be a description somewhere of how to do it but I haven't found it yet.
Tom
"Like it or not he is the current leader of a UK political party."
Seems to have self-promoted himself up a notch or two during his US visit. In a campaign/s of audacious lies why am I not surprised....
https://www.indy100.com/article/nigel-farage-leader-opposition-fox-news-donald-trump-united-states-presidential-election-government-7414711
Seems to have self-promoted himself up a notch or two during his US visit. In a campaign/s of audacious lies why am I not surprised....
https://www.indy100.com/article/nigel-farage-leader-opposition-fox-news-donald-trump-united-states-presidential-election-government-7414711
I have said from the outset that fraud is wrong and my position on that has never changed.
I think that to liken Farage's informal meeting with Donald Trump to an act which is little short of treason or anarchy is over the top. At the very worst, he may be guilty of disrespect to Mrs May, but that is probably pushing it.
It's this sort of readiness to leap to extremes which causes me a degree of unease regarding your judgement. Are your forecasts for a post BREXIT Britain similarly exaggerated? Many, not all, of the more vocal remainers display similar characteristics.
I'm still optimistic about our future outside of the EU. I know that you will disagree with me and that it is unlikely that we will ever see eye to eye on the subject.
Duke University ran a course on How to Reason and argue.Wow! I love that one.....I don't understand it but it sounds good! It's a new one on me and there must be a description somewhere of how to do it but I haven't found it yet.
Tom
Apparently it is harder than it looks
"More than 220,000 students registered for the course; almost 128,000 watched the first video; approximately 78,380 attempted the first homework exercise and almost 10,000 students watched the final video. At the end, 5,322 students earned a Statement of Accomplishment with a substantial subset of 3,048 students earning a Statement of Accomplishment with Distinction.
This prompts some questions
- Was Farage among them?
- I wonder how many of the 3,048 were sufficiently adept to argue and get their money back?
- Have they had to register their mouths as Dangerous weapons?
- And how many of the ones who didn't make it managed to successfully deny they had ever heard of it and hide before being identified and "Conned" by the ones with the Distinctions?
Who would deliberately offer a course as dangerous as that?
Just a bit of fun folks!
Well, that's a start! disrespect is a very mild word for "Putting the screws on Mrs May" by forming alliances with a complete contempt for the Government of the country he is allegedly a citizen of.
Trying to affect the actions of the Government by influencing a Foreign head of State for personal advantage goes way beyond disrespect!
My forecasts for a post Brexit Britain?
Slow decline, increased National Debt, Unrest among the poor, dismantling bit by bit of the NHS (Unavoidable we will be told)
Drastic though slow lowering of living standards, Environmental Standards, and workers rights.
Widespread poverty, and the rich getting richer.
In fact a return to a the world I grew up in in the 1940's
And once the dust settles a long slow realisation that the EU wasn't the cause of the Brexit voters woes after all and that this was a very bad idea, and we will end up back in the EU within 10 years worse off and less influential than we are.
In the end a valuable lesson will be learned.
Unfortunately the whole population will be exposed to this unnecessary experiment and suffer because of the foolishness of 38% of the population.
That prediction is in fact an optimistic one, the signs are there for all to read.
By the way i rather like that line
"Are you forecasts for a post BREXIT Britain similarly exaggerated? Many, not all, of the more vocal leavers display similar characteristics."
It only needed one word to be changed.