Brexit, for once some facts.

[oyster]

If anyone still thinks the current so-called government is legitimate:

Michael Gove has repeatedly refused to rule out the possibility that the government could ignore any law passed by parliament to stop a no-deal Brexit and insisted there would be no food shortages if the UK did crash out of the EU on 31 October.

That is, this person absolutely says there will be none. Not "well, there might not be enough Cos, you might need to switch to Iceberg". Not just that overall, there will be enough calories available.

A first step might be to volunteer to starve until the shortages are resolved.

 

[oldgroaner]

Has it?

More drivel and fantasy.

You need to cool your jets. You are not doing your health any favours. You are going on full rage mode and upsetting yourself over something you have no control over.

Edit. Where did the money go that 'rescued' the Greeks? You talk about fantasist beliefs about tax dodging where I can prove to you how corrupt the EU is to the elite bankers.

The bailout money given to stop Greece going bankrupt came from the European Central Bank and the IMF, e.g. the taxpayers of France, Germany and other wealthy nations of Western Europe. None of that money went to help the ordinary people of Greece. All of it was used to make payments on the Greek government’s existing debt — mostly to banks in Western Europe. So Angela Merkel and other EU leaders effectively extorted money from their own taxpayers to hand it directly to the biggest European banks, mainly in their own countries- It was a direct wealth transfer from ordinary people to the financial elite. The same irresponsible financial elite who had plunged the world into chaos.

What about Italy? The 4th largest economy in the EU. It has a very broad manufacturing base. It should be absolutely in clover if the economic benefits of the EU are so great. Why do they have a growth rate of less than tenth of the global average over the past 20 years? Think about that.

The Euro is not weighted correctly. It's been baled out w times already. A new wave is just round the corner.

What about the migrant crisis? Paying Turkey to quietly sweep it up under their desert. w=With literally no plan but to hope the boats sink.

Corruption and Tax avoidance master classes are taught in Brussels.

And you think they are some benevolent uncle....

Oh Dear so now you are an expert on international finance?
None of the problems you mention originate from the EU, all from locl Governments, though you don't know where one ends and the other begins.
After the bailouts our bankers got out of us you mention the European ones? my goodness, is there a moral somewhere?
BS.
Corruption and Tax avoidance master classes are taught in Brussels. you say, so why then are our tax avoidance class so keen on Brexit?
Fingers, stick to insults, this sort of stuff you posted is obviously trash

 

[Fingers]

Oh Dear so now you are an expert on international finance?
None of the problems you mention originate from the EU, all from locl Governments, though you don't know where one ends and the other begins.
After the bailouts our bankers got out of us you mention the European ones? my goodness, is there a moral somewhere?
BS.
Corruption and Tax avoidance master classes are taught in Brussels. you say, so why then are our tax avoidance class so keen on Brexit?
Fingers, stick to insults, this sort of stuff you posted is obviously trash

Just going to quote this so when he starts editing his initial brain fart the original is here to see in all its.....glory?

I don't want his loyal million viewers (his words not mine) to be bamboozled by his usual nonsense.

 

[Woosh]

What about Italy? The 4th largest economy in the EU. It has a very broad manufacturing base. It should be absolutely in clover if the economic benefits of the EU are so great. Why do they have a growth rate of less than tenth of the global average over the past 20 years? Think about that.

Italy is hit by strong competition in manufacturing from Japan, South Korea, India, Mexico, Poland etc
With an ageing population, it spends more than it earns.
The EU helps all members with some stability but at the end of the day, factors like their productivity and diversity of their economy give them growth, not past successes.

 

[Fingers]

Italy is hit by strong competition in manufacturing from Japan, South Korea, India, Mexico, Poland etc
With an ageing population, it spends more than it earns.
The EU helps all members with some stability but at the end of the day, factors like their productivity and diversity of their economy give them growth, not past successes.

There is also rampant corruption. But end of the day....The Eu seems to be more of a hindrance to Italy. As it is with us but in a different sense.

Only Germany out of the net providers gets the benefit due to its large manufacturing base. France wins due to the agricultural laws it set up.

Us, as a mainly service economy lose out despite the sweet deal Thatcher set up for us in the 80's. And as the Federation closes ever tighter with the Euro countries there is little point in us being in it.

We can get what we need outside of the federation. Free movement, good to free trade, collaboration in sciences and arts. We just have no desire to become part of the United States of Europe. Well the majority of us. And that's what counts in a democracy.

 

[Woosh]

There is also rampant corruption.

there are cultural factors. You could just as well argue that corruption was even worse before Italy joined the EU.

We can get what we need outside of the federation. Free movement, good to free trade, collaboration in sciences and arts.

Of course we can, but there is no guarantee that what we'll get is better than what we are getting at the moment.
Leave voters were sensitive to restriction of free movement , high import tariffs of certain goods (shoes, wines and sugar) -they will be disappointed with WTO even higher tariff on those products and more, and more immigrants from Africa and Asian countries rather than from the EU27. The special concession on import tariffs (near zero on many products) only lasts for a year. If a raft of new deals does not materialise, high inflation will follow.

 

[oldgroaner]

There is also rampant corruption. But end of the day....The Eu seems to be more of a hindrance to Italy. As it is with us but in a different sense.

Only Germany out of the net providers gets the benefit due to its large manufacturing base. France wins due to the agricultural laws it set up.

Us, as a mainly service economy lose out despite the sweet deal Thatcher set up for us in the 80's. And as the Federation closes ever tighter with the Euro countries there is little point in us being in it.

We can get what we need outside of the federation. Free movement, good to free trade, collaboration in sciences and arts. We just have no desire to become part of the United States of Europe. Well the majority of us. And that's what counts in a democracy.

Wrong as usual attributing fault to the EU that belongs with the individual nations.

We were not a mainly service economy when we joined the EEC
We lost out because of incompetence and poor policies, and the same group of people are still in charge
You will soon find out how wrong you are after Brexit

 

[oldgroaner]

Just going to quote this so when he starts editing his initial brain fart the original is here to see in all its.....glory?

I don't want his loyal million viewers (his words not mine) to be bamboozled by his usual nonsense.

Your usual juvenile lies

 

[Fingers]

there are cultural factors. You could just as well argue that corruption was even worse before Italy joined the EU.



Of course we can, but there is no guarantee that what we'll get is better than what we are getting at the moment.
Leave voters were sensitive to restriction of free movement , high import tariffs of certain goods (shoes, wines and sugar) -they will be disappointed with WTO even higher tariff on those products and more, and more immigrants from Africa and Asian countries rather than from the EU27. The special concession on import tariffs (near zero on many products) only lasts for a year. If a raft of new deals does not materialise, high inflation will follow.

I wasn't saying corruption in Italy was the fault of the EU. If anything it has gone down since they were members.

And yes, you could well be right our tariffs may become higher in the medium term. Who knows really. I would argue it would be quicker to make deals when you haven't got to factor in a Flemish...it's always Flemish...village of fudge makers.

I think the one thing I would say about predictions and forecasts is they are usually if not always wrong. I don't know how HS2 can be 50 billion over before its actually started, but here we are.

Or Cross Rail being 3 years late and 11 bn? over. These are all government costed figures so excuse me if I take their latest forecasts with a pinch of ****.

Or that if we voted out we would be dead now etc. They are guessing as much as we are.

 

[Woosh]

Or that if we voted out we would be dead now etc. They are guessing as much as we are.

of course it won't be as bad as some people make out about shortage of this or that.
The delay at the docks will be sorted out as they always will, the duty money goes into our government coffers so it will help cutting taxes on petrol for example.
The losers are our manufacturers and exporters.

 

[Fingers]

of course it won't be as bad as some people make out about shortage of this or that.
The delay at the docks will be sorted out as they always will, the duty money goes into our government coffers so it will help cutting taxes on petrol for example.
The losers are our manufacturers and exporters.

What would be nice is that we have a concerted campaign to buy British wherever possible.

Find a way to reduce tax on UK made products that sell here.

Win win.

 

[oldgroaner]

What would be nice is that we have a concerted campaign to buy British wherever possible.

Find a way to reduce tax on UK made products that sell here.

Win win.

Tried in the past and failed

 

[oldgroaner]

I wasn't saying corruption in Italy was the fault of the EU. If anything it has gone down since they were members.

And yes, you could well be right our tariffs may become higher in the medium term. Who knows really. I would argue it would be quicker to make deals when you haven't got to factor in a Flemish...it's always Flemish...village of fudge makers.

I think the one thing I would say about predictions and forecasts is they are usually if not always wrong. I don't know how HS2 can be 50 billion over before its actually started, but here we are.

Or Cross Rail being 3 years late and 11 bn? over. These are all government costed figures so excuse me if I take their latest forecasts with a pinch of ****.

Or that if we voted out we would be dead now etc. They are guessing as much as we are.

Nonsense

 

[Fingers]

You are getting close to going back on ignore you silly old man.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

of course it won't be as bad as some people make out about shortage of this or that.
The delay at the docks will be sorted out as they always will, the duty money goes into our government coffers so it will help cutting taxes on petrol for example.
The losers are our manufacturers and exporters.

manufacturing will take a hit, but 46% of uk exports are to the eu, and 40% of that are services. all of that will become significantly less competitive with new duties and shrink, triggering significant unemployment and loss of net tax revenue. and contrary to leave voters views on here we are not about to emulate Vietnam by setting up sweatshops and exporting mobile phones competitively..

 

[oldgroaner]

You are getting close to going back on ignore you silly old man.

What a splendid idea! you may as well , as you are hopeless at debate, all you have are corny lies and weak insults.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

I wasn't saying corruption in Italy was the fault of the EU. If anything it has gone down since they were members.

And yes, you could well be right our tariffs may become higher in the medium term. Who knows really. I would argue it would be quicker to make deals when you haven't got to factor in a Flemish...it's always Flemish...village of fudge makers.

I think the one thing I would say about predictions and forecasts is they are usually if not always wrong. I don't know how HS2 can be 50 billion over before its actually started, but here we are.

Or Cross Rail being 3 years late and 11 bn? over. These are all government costed figures so excuse me if I take their latest forecasts with a pinch of ****.

Or that if we voted out we would be dead now etc. They are guessing as much as we are.

to the uneducated everything is guessing. there is a difference between informed uncertainty and blind uncertainty.

 

[oldgroaner]

to the uneducated everything is guessing. there is a difference between informed uncertainty and blind uncertainty.

Using fingers logic Engineering would have failed to conquer the air and man would never have made it to the moon.
Ignorance of the power of calculating and judging probabilities using available and researched and verified information to reach a decision, relying instead on wishful thinking and accepting optimistic promises has resulted in Brexit.
And remember. in the main nothing that was offered at the time of the referendum is still available

 

[oldgroaner]

the Boris Junta isn't popular in Scotland
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17873264.boris-johnson-39-s-tory-government-refuses-reveal-poverty-levels-brexit/
Boris Johnson's Tory Government refuses to reveal poverty levels under Brexit

 

[oldgroaner]

What fun timetable to disaster

• September 3: Parliament returns after summer break. MPs' chance to vote no confidence in government or block no-deal Brexit
• September 4: Chancellor announces Whitehall spending for 2020/21
• September 12: Parliament suspended
• September 22-25: Labour Party conference
• September 23-27: Boris Johnson speaks at UN General Assembly in this week and could visit the White House
• September 29 - October 2: Tory Party conference
• October 14: Parliament returns with Queen's Speech - but is then snarled up in a week of debates
• October 17: European Council meeting. The last chance to get a Brexit deal with 27 EU leaders
• October 21-22: Votes on the Queen's Speech
• Final week: Vote on any plan Boris Johnson gets for Brexit
• October 31: Brexit happens, with or without a deal

And then the slide down into chaos begins.
And what's in it for us? Nothing.. but for this character with the bucket on his head, it's sunshine all the way.

As an example of how phony this son of a one time editor of the Times is, his parents purchased the alleged "ancestral home"Prior to his birth, in 1964 Ston Easton Park, a country house in 1964 then A few years later, in 1978, the family moved to the nearby village of Hinton Blewett where they purchased The Old Rectory, a Grade II listed former rectory, today valued at £2Million.
So where did the big grant go?