Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Pretty much the same.

fascinating, so you don't see any major changes?
Here comes one of my edits.
What was the point of voting for Brexit and all the chaos and confusion caused when you could have got that very same conclusion by remaining a member of the EU.
What was the point?

 

[Fingers]

fascinating, so you don't see any major changes?
Here comes one of my edits.
What was the point of voting for Brexit and all the chaos and confusion caused when you could have got that very same conclusion by remaining a member of the EU.
What was the point?

Just a bit of a giggle really.

 

[Danidl]

Very interesting question. If the queen really is forced to do whatever she is told, then refusing to be prorogued would not seem to be in any sense defiance of the queen's acquiescence.

Perhaps they should sit in Manchester, coming so soon after the Peterloo anniversay and after decades of some people urging sessions to be held around the country. Or Belfast?

Logically, for the Speaker to set themselves up in conflict with the head of State, is the definition of constitutional crisis. The only way in which the proroguing can be prevented is by voting no confidence in the PM,and then refusing to dissolve Parliament . The presumption at present is that the Queen acted in the precedence that her First Minister was speaking for the House. If it were shown not to be the case, then the request as granted would be rescinded and shown to be acting in concert with Parliament. The State demands that the Queen does not lose face

 

[flecc]

People tend to vote for the party at a GE (or even the party leader) they save the protest votes for Bi-elections or Euro elections.

That's in normal times.

After the savage 2008 recession, nearly a decade of austerity, so many people losing their homes, the decline in the NHS and three years of Brexit chaos, these are not remotely normal times.

Any outcome is possible. Just look at what happened in Theresa May's GE when the Tories were expected to win comfortably against Corbyn. Instead they lost their majority and had to bribe the DUP to stay in government.
.

 

[OxygenJames]

Boris is bullying them

Good. They deserved to be 'bullied' (though I would call it making them aware of their responsibilities to their constituency voters).

If they vote against the government absolutely they should be de-selected.

 

[OxygenJames]

Looks like a coalition government would result and surely Boris won't want that?
I think he is in a corner

He'd form a government with the Brexit party.

 

[OxygenJames]

I wonder if any Brexit voters care to outline what they anticipate to be the nature of the political situation that will emerge after Brexit?
Perhaps they can suggest what they envisage will happen?
Or has no one given a thought to it?

They'll be an election which the Tory's will win easily.

 

[flecc]

he is still more polite and less idiot compared to Bojo.
Perhaps the conservatives should have elected JRM instead.

He reminds me of Syrian president Bashar al-Assad, they are very alike.

Both impeccably polite and pleasantly spoken, while being highly dangerous extremists who know no limits to their actions to get what they want.
.

 

[oyster]

He'd form a government with the Brexit party.

If tories fight the brexit party, how many seats will each get?

 

[flecc]

Very interesting question. If the queen really is forced to do whatever she is told, then refusing to be prorogued would not seem to be in any sense defiance of the queen's acquiescence.

The Queen missed something. A prorogue normally lasts for 7 to 10 days maximum, only a little longer if a public holidays intervenes.

So while she is expected to follow convention by granting a prorogue, she certainly didn't need to seriously break with convention by granting the extraordinary near 5 weeks Johnson was seeking for an illicit purpose.

She could have and should have granted it for a maximum of 10 days, which would just be conforming to convention, not constituting interfering politically.
.

 

[Woosh]

If they vote against the government absolutely they should be de-selected.

that is making the civil war in the conservative party a total war.
It seems to me a nihilistic, scorched earth, desperate, last resort tactic.
By the same logic, TM should have threatened Ian Duncan Smith and the ERG members with deselection.
By making next week vote against no deal a confidence vote, Bojo will indeed turn the conservative party into Farage's brexit party.
Unelectable later on.

 

[Fingers]

The Queen missed something. A prorogue normally lasts for 7 to 10 days maximum, only a little longer if a public holidays intervenes.

So while she is expected to follow convention by granting a prorogue, she certainly didn't need to seriously break with convention by granting the extraordinary near 5 weeks Johnson was seeking for an illicit purpose.

She could have and should have granted it for a maximum of 10 days, which would just be conforming to convention, not constituting interfering politically.
.

Incorrect.

It's only 4 days longer than would be considered 'normal'. This isn't normal times. Forgetting the whole brexit thing it was the longest session of parliament in almost forever. And it's end coincided with the party's parties. I note none if them volunteered to cancel their jamborees for the country's sake. I'm no Tory but what he has done isn't criminal and isn't excessive.

Mass hysteria strikes again.

 

[OxygenJames]

that is making the civil war in the conservative party a total war.
It seems to me a nihilistic, scorched earth, desperate, last resort tactic.
By the same logic, TM should have threatened Ian Duncan Smith and the ERG members with deselection.
By making next week vote against no deal a confidence vote, Bojo will indeed turn the conservative party into Farage's brexit party.
Unelectable later on.

Well I guess we're all entitled to our opinions.

 

[Woosh]

It's only 4 days longer than would be considered 'normal'.

5 weeks against 3 weeks.
Even if Bojo ordered 3 weeks break for the conference season (late September to beginning of October), the Queen's speech break is usually a week.
The sticky point is the timing. By starting the holiday early, it looks like an underhand tactic, using procedure to stymie the opposition.

 

[flecc]

Incorrect.

It's only 4 days longer than would be considered 'normal'.

Nonsense, as I posted 7 to 10 days is normal, nearly five weeks is far from any normality and totally unnecessary for a Queen's speech.

The only hysteria is in your Brexit defensiveness.
.

 

[Fingers]

When was the last time prog rock happened in conference season?

Don't get me wrong it's blatantly about getting his strategy together but it isn't as treasonous as some folks are getting hysterical about.

 

[flecc]

When was the last time prog rock happened in conference season?

Don't get me wrong it's blatantly about getting his strategy together but it isn't as treasonous as some folks are getting hysterical about.

Certainly not treasonous, but it's not hysterical to observe that he is perverting the constitution by his misuse of the prorogue.

He has used the Queen for a political purpose which is quite improper, so as I posted, she should have resisted that abuse by restricting the prorogue to a reasonable term. I believe she was poorly advised.
.

 

[oyster]

Certainly not treasonous, but it's not hysterical to observe that he is perverting the constitution by his misuse of the prorogue.

He has used the Queen for a political purpose which is quite improper, so as I posted, she should have resisted that abuse by restricting the prorogue to a reasonable term. I believe she was poorly advised.
.

Of course, look who advised her. The PC members with JRM as current top dog.

Wonder how many were asked for their opinions, how many gave their opinions, and which opinions were passed on to HM?

https://privycouncil.independent.gov.uk/privy-council/privy-council-members/

 

[Fingers]

Certainly not treasonous, but it's not hysterical to observe that he is perverting the constitution by his misuse of the prorogue.

He has used the Queen for a political purpose which is quite improper, so as I posted, she should have resisted that abuse by restricting the prorogue to a reasonable term. I believe she was poorly advised.
.

The poor Queen bless her heart.

Just a frail old pensioner living off state benefits. Barely knows where she is most days of the week. Those evil men have taken advantage of her simple soul.

Jesus flecc.

 

[daveboy]

The poor Queen bless her heart.

Just a frail old pensioner living off state benefits. Barely knows where she is most days of the week. Those evil men have taken advantage of her simple soul.

Jesus flecc.

I reckon the queen is a Leaver.