Brexit, for once some facts.

daveboy

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 19, 2012
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it's more than just the border posts.
All cross border trade will need to be declared. If I sell a bike to an ROI citizen, he has to pay EU duty and Irish VAT, I have to claim VAT from UK government. The bike needs to have CE certificate beside Conformity certificate. Cross border trade for large companies will carry on but small companies just cannot afford the admin overhead plus punitive EU tariff at WTO rate.
What if he buys it on "holiday" in Belfast.
When they brought in the 50p per unit of alcohol in Scotland everybody got their booze on holiday or just across the border at Gretna Green.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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No, I’m not advocating life for all crimes. Initially, the sentence can be short, if they do it again it can be long, and if they persist, it can be until they are of an age that they are no longer physically capable of crime.

The situation we have at the moment is people roaming the streets with 40, 50, 60 convictions, some into 3 figures. That isn’t right and the solution is to put them out of harms way and amongst other like minded people. They can’t offend when in prison in isolation and without access to the outside world.
But as the record shows and I've already posted, that doesn't reduce crime, but does greatly increase the very costly prison population. Punishing the rest of us with that cost.

The USA showed this flaw long ago, the longer the sentences they passed, the more crime increased and the greater the prison population. Now they are the capital of both, crime and largest prison population.

Your "solution" can only partially work with full life sentences at huge cost.
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Shorter but harsher to start with, when you watch the police programs on TV the scroatbags hate it when they get locked up at the local police station (on a Friday for court on Monday) I've seen them cry and ask to be sent to prison for the weekend. No TV, no drugs and no mates to talk to in a Police station, that's how prison should be.
The USA has done this, doesn't work as their record shows.

We even tried the short sharp shock long ago under William Whitelaw, but that only increased crime, and it's been increasing ever since.

When will the British public ever learn to look at the proven facts instead of relying on failed instincts?
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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
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wooshbikes.co.uk
current betting odds:

Johnson: 2/9
Hunt: 8/1
Stewart: 14/1
Gove: 16/1
Javid: 28/1
Raab: 50/1

I expect Johnson, Hunt, Stewart and Gove will make it to round 3 next week.
 

daveboy

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 19, 2012
952
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But as the record shows and I've already posted, that doesn't reduce crime, but does greatly increase the very costly prison population. Punishing the rest of us with that cost.

The USA showed this flaw long ago, the longer the sentences they passed, the more crime increased and the greater the prison population.
.
I agree longer sentences don't work but harsher ones do. When Texas started using tents in the desert for prisons. the criminals started to cross to another state to commit crime and Texas reoffending fell.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,279
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I agree longer sentences don't work but harsher ones do. When Texas started using tents in the desert for prisons. the criminals started to cross to another state to commit crime and Texas reoffending fell.
So it didn't work, it just moved the crime. Not much point. As I've often posted, the Americans have the answer to everything but the solution to nothing in their widely failed society

We did the same with paedophilia, savage sentencing and prison conditions drove the offenders to Thailand, so we had to get the Thais to clamp down. It shifted to the Philipines, ditto. Now it's in places like Bhutan. So we haven't solved anything with savage sentencing, just spread crime as the Texans did.
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daveboy

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 19, 2012
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So it didn't work, it just moved the crime. Not much point. As I've often posted, the Americans have the answer to everything but the solution to nothing in their widely failed society

We did the same with paedophilia, savage sentencing and prison conditions drove the offenders to Thailand, so we had to get the Thais to clamp down. It shifted to the Philipines, ditto. Now it's in places like Bhutan. So we haven't solved anything with savage sentencing, just spread crime as the Texans did.
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Paedophilia is different (children are children everywhere) But I would be quite happy for the burglars and muggers to bugger off to another country (selfish I know)instead of the Romanians coming here to pickpocket because we are a soft touch.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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Here is an interview to watch!
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/eddie-mair/rory-stewart-refuses-answer-question-boris-johnson/
Rory Stewart asked Conservative members if Boris Johnson is really the man they want with the nuclear codes. But when Eddie Mair asked him that question, he refused to answer.


The former Foreign Secretary had a big win in the first round of voting for the next Conservative leader, while Mr Stewart scraped through to the next phase with 19 votes.


In a message to Tory members, Mr Stewart said: “Do you really, and I don’t want to make this too personal, but do you really feel that this is the person that you want engaging with the detail of the future of your health and education system? Is this the person that you want writing the instructions to the nuclear submarines? I trust Conservative members to arrive at the correct answer."
Speaking on LBC after the results, Eddie Mair asked him to answer his own question - and he couldn't answer.
Eddie asked him: "Would you trust Boris Johnson writing the instructions to the nuclear submarines?"
Mr Stewart responded: "I'm avoiding your question, I'm going to duck your question."
So Eddie insisted: "It's a question you're asking other people to consider. Why won't you answer the question you're posing?
"You can't say whether you trust Boris Johnson to write the instructions to the nuclear submarines? A question you yourself have posed of others."
When the candidate again refused to answer, Eddie continued: "I'm asking you to give an answer to a question you yourself have asked."
The interview became very tense

So there you have it

Rory Stewart will put aside his very real fear at letting lunatic Boris have control of our deterrent because it might jeopardise a future job under Boris

This is what I would have answered " No I wouldn't trust him, I said so didn't I?"
 
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Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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Rory Stewart will put aside his very real fear at letting lunatic Boris have control of our deterrent because it might jeopardise a future job under Boris

This is what I would have answered " No I wouldn't trust him, I said so didn't I?"
it's obvious what Stewart implies by asking the question. Answering it with a no would be his personal view, also making the attack personal rather than political, also, it wouldn't make a story.
He is right not to answer it, so he gets the question repeated. That's a similar tactic used by the populists, say something outrageous hoping it would be repeated by the media.
 
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Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
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I travel between Italy and Switzerland frequently and have only ever seen border checks about 5% of the time, and then the guards are usually looking bored, smoking and waving everything through.
Is this because you see yourself as a person or as goods?. But more importantly since the traffic is coming from hundreds of miles inside an EU country all the vetting has already been done. In the case of the UK and Ireland ,that would not be the case. England,let alone Scotland and Northern Ireland have have major sea ports bringing millions of tonnes internationally
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,279
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Paedophilia is different (children are children everywhere)
OK then, drugs. Clamping down hard in London has driven the large dealers to send youngsters out to provincial centres to drug run. Staying only a very short time in each place, it doesn't give the police time to identify them. Again spreading crime, no solution.

I don't know why you are flogging this dead horse, harsh penalties have been tried over and over again, here and elsewhere, and always failed with crime increasing every time.

Our crime history and that of the USA proves it beyond question.
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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Time iis definitely not on anyone's side, Boris seems to be promising a deal but
The official position of both Labour and the Conservatives is that they will leave the EU with a negotiated deal of some sort, which will be some variation of the Withdrawal Agreement and the existing political declaration. But with the Tory leadership election lasting six weeks, followed by the summer recess, parliament won’t be able to attempt to legislate an EU withdrawal until September at the earliest.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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it's obvious what Stewart implies by asking the question. Answering it with a no would be his personal view, also making the attack personal rather than political, also, it wouldn't make a story.
He is right not to answer it, so he gets the question repeated. That's a similar tactic used by the populists, say something outrageous hoping it would be repeated by the media.
The problem is he didn't say something outrageous, you would have to be out of your mind to trust Boris with the key to a Piggy bank, never mind our Nuclear Arsenal.
Rory proved he had no principles or integrity, bloody disgraceful.
Typical Tory
 

gray198

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 4, 2012
1,592
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OK then, drugs. Clamping down hard in London has driven the large dealers to send youngsters out to provincial centres to drug run. Staying only a very short time in each place, it doesn't give the police time to identify them. Again spreading crime, no solution.

I don't know why you are flogging this dead horse, harsh penalties have been tried over and over again, here and elsewhere, and always failed with crime increasing every time.

Our crime history and that of the USA proves it beyond question.
.
what is the answer then
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
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Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
The problem is he didn't say something outrageous, you would have to be out of your mind to trust Boris with the key to a Piggy bank, never mind our Nuclear Arsenal.
Rory proved he had no principles or integrity, bloody disgraceful.
Typical Tory
BJ said two contradictory things: he wants a new deal and want it by October 31st.
He can't have a deal until next year, when the new EU's machinery is in place.
I expect Stewart will force him next Tuesday to admit that one of the two statements is a lie. If he does not evoke the question himself, some journalist will do that for him.
 
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gray198

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 4, 2012
1,592
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Many have claimed over the years that the best single step to reducing criminal activity is to increase the likelihood of being caught.
yes but getting caught won't be a concern to them if there is no effective punishment. There has got to be a proportionate punishment fitting the crime
 

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