Brexit, for once some facts.

Danidl

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It would certainly help, but not completely solve the problem, since marine diesel for commercial use also has reduced duty rates and is dyed.
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My proposal would be to include all uses. Again marine diesel is even easier to measure consumption because the motors are fixed speed and the hours running is a better measure of consumption. The same would be the case for static uses. Again the manufacturers can supply realistic operational costs, verified by the standards authorities .. DIN BSI etc.
 
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Zlatan

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A very shallow analysis. The cause of our woes runs much much deeper than the fact that 17.4m people decided to vote leave when given the choice.
I agree with your sentiment, but responding to OG is uttetly futile. He simply enters deeper into insult mode. Best let him express his anger and forget it. You cant really reply to a response pointing blame at people for getting what they voted for. He, s right. We will leave, leave voters are obviously responsible. The point he misses is remainers have ensured that leaving will be a hard no deal, not the half in, half out May's deal would have given us. He misses the point, perhaps deliberately.
 
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gray198

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Apr 4, 2012
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You mentioned Jew and Nazi.

Look what happened to Ken Livingstone when he did that. He was buried with accusations of being racist.
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so was that gobby woman being racist when she called the Trump supporter a Nazi., and if so is she being prosecuted for hate speech. BTW it was not my post. I merely commented. Unfortunately in this country the using of the race card has become a weapon against anyone with whom you disagree
 
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jonathan.agnew

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A very shallow analysis. The cause of our woes runs much much deeper than the fact that 17.4m people decided to vote leave when given the choice.
But brexit has a lot in common with, say, invading iraq or deregulating financial services. Grandiose gestures fuelled by jingoistic delusions of grandeur around returning britain to its assumed roghtful place on the world stage. As a final symptom of our self deceit, brexit has everything to do with our woes.
 
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Woosh

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No he cant, but he can deliver no deal without changing any policy. Its exactly why May had to leave, she had promised her deal and her version of Brexit. BJ has made it clear from start, if EU dont compromise it will be no deal.
the difference between TM and BJ is if TM had got her deal through, she would be the one leading the conservatives into the next election. The tories believe that their chance at the next GE is better with BJ than with TM.
However, BJ won't be rid of Farage unless Farage's BXP is up for sale. If Farage does not yield, JC will get the key to No 10.

Latest poll (YouGov):
BXP - 26%
Lib Dem - 22%
Lab - 19%
Con - 17%
Green - 8%
Other - 9%
 
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Zlatan

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the difference between TM and BJ is if TM had got her deal through, she would be the one leading the conservatives into the next election. The tories believe that their chance at the next GE is better with BJ than with TM.
However, BJ won't be rid of Farage unless Farage's BXP is up for sale. If Farage does not yield, JC will get the key to No 10.
Fair points. We all know Farage can be bought but to be fair he doesnt have anything to sell yet. He has to put forward BXP as a GE party, write a manifesto and then attract similar support as he did in EU elections, which actually wasnt as good as made out. Yes, he gained support from tories and his old Ukip supporters but would that be replicated in a GE? Its at best unknown,he neither has policy or manifesto as yet.
Now, had Corbyn come to his senses, it would be different, but beginning to think he has no sense to come to.
Amazingly, I could see Boris being a one horse race, even in next GE. The last vote in parliament is indicative. Even after all the fuss taking no deal off table lost this time..???
 

Zlatan

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But brexit has a lot in common with, say, invading iraq or deregulating financial services. Grandiose gestures fuelled by jingoistic delusions of grandeur around returning britain to its assumed roghtful place on the world stage. As a final symptom of our self deceit, brexit has everything to do with our woes.
I, m afraid that utter is BS. Invading Iraq was utterly opposed by general public, the opposition and most media. Tony Blair rode rough shod over us all. Even his pal Gordon was against it.
Mood of country over Brexit is quite the reverse, sick of it all and growing support for leaving with no deal combined with inpatience of it dragging on and on. Country want it sorted. Had Iraq war been put to a referendum it would have been dont do it to tune of 70/30. Bet we would have ignored that too.
 
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50Hertz

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Jan 2, 2019
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That's very old fashioned thinking, proven to not only fail but achieve the opposite.

It's what lead to our prison population multiplying eight times from a relatively stable 11,000 to peak at 88,000, coupled with a very large increase in crimes. That happened in less than half of my lifetime.

So we backed off, still issuing ridiculously long sentences but prisoners only having to serve half with good behaviour. But of course that didn't work, since as usual, once the damage was done, reversal wasn't so simple so we are stuck with a large prison population and high crime.

It's about escalation, and gun crime is related to this. Arm the police and the criminals respond with arms. Sentence savagely and the criminals become more determined and ruthless, it's in human psychological nature. All this and more has long been understood in criminology, but sadly too many among our politicians think as you do and make matters worse.
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For however long as they are isolated and confined into a secure space measuring a maximum of 2m x 2m they can't commit crime. It's when we let them go before they are ready that causes the problems.
 
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oldgroaner

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Is this a joke. They are now saying it can be done, This one concession would have seen May's deal go through, Saying that if they had given Camermoron one concession we would never have been in this position.
The Eurocrats are a set of Jeremy Hunts.
did you read this part?
"EU officials stress that current tech still cannot eliminate all the checks needed to avoid a “hard border” as Britain has pledged. "
Or just choose to ignore it?
 
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oldgroaner

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Right. And now they've created Boris as the leader. And they will do the deal with him because they want us out now - they've had enough of all this.

Then we'll have a GE - and all those Farage supporters will flock back to the Torys and Labour will be blown out of the water.
And if that happens we will face a backlash in the streets when people realise they have been cheated and worse off in every way.
And if Boris isn't even thicker than we know him to be he must be terrified of having the responsibility of a No deal brexit against his name.
Most likely the slimy creep will try to resurrect Mays Deal, put it in Xmas paper and sell it to the public as a Victory
 
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50Hertz

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did you read this part?
"EU officials stress that current tech still cannot eliminate all the checks needed to avoid a “hard border” as Britain has pledged. "
Or just choose to ignore it?
It has on the Swiss / Italian border.

Look, I don’t think we should be having this debate because we shouldn’t be leaving. However, all of this hard Irish border talk is pure BS. If the EU are finding it so difficult, let them build a border and patrol it.
 

daveboy

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did you read this part?
"EU officials stress that current tech still cannot eliminate all the checks needed to avoid a “hard border” as Britain has pledged. "
Or just choose to ignore it?
They also said.
"Asked how the border would be handled under No Deal, he said: “I do not want this option to be created but we are ready to support the Irish government"

A hard border and supporting the Irish Government does not add up.
 
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oldgroaner

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I agree with your sentiment, but responding to OG is uttetly futile. He simply enters deeper into insult mode. Best let him express his anger and forget it. You cant really reply to a response pointing blame at people for getting what they voted for. He, s right. We will leave, leave voters are obviously responsible. The point he misses is remainers have ensured that leaving will be a hard no deal, not the half in, half out May's deal would have given us. He misses the point, perhaps deliberately.
You really are a comic, aren't you? what insult? is blaming you for a mess you made insulting?
And you have uttely ignored the point that Mays deal was rejected by the leave camp as well!
Now explain how it is me, not you that missed the point
perhaps you could begin with explaining .

"It is the fault of the remainers that so many of the leave campaign voted with them to reject May's deal creating the likelihood of a no deal Brexit"

Time you gave up trying to con people with nonsense like that
 

oldgroaner

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They also said.
"Asked how the border would be handled under No Deal, he said: “I do not want this option to be created but we are ready to support the Irish government"

A hard border and supporting the Irish Government does not add up.
They are separate issues
I agree
 

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