Brexit, for once some facts.

[OxygenJames]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/446805144781348865

Obviously you're somebody who has not looked into the reality behind that often quoted '97% of scientists'. It's absolute nonsense. Do your research.

The actual truth is that 97% of 'climate' scientists are going to be out of a job when this whole scam comes crashing down.

 

[OxygenJames]

I blame our education system.
I don't know if you watch TV quiz shows but the level of general knowledge on geography is very poor. If people don't know where most of the capital cities are, I bet they don't relate to climate issues because climate and geography are very much linked.

This is pretty interesting - an interview with one of the founding members of Greenpeace - who left the organisation when it became the politicised lobby group it has now become:

 

[OxygenJames]

This is pretty interesting - an interview with one of the founding members of Greenpeace - who left the organisation when it became the politicised lobby group it has now become:

Here's Mark Steyn (author of 'A disgrace to the profession' about Michael Mann):

 

[Woosh]

The actual truth is that 97% of 'climate' scientists are going to be out of a job when this whole scam comes crashing down.

Satellite and airborne surveys are credible evidences.
You have the loss of polar ice - I don't think many people will dispute that.

 

[OxygenJames]

Satellite and airborne surveys are credible evidences.
You have the loss of polar ice - I don't think many people will dispute that.

Yes. Evidence that the climate is changing. And? It's been changing since time began. At the time of Magna Carta there is reference to vineyards half way up the UK - ie it was hotter then than it is now. You've been conned if you think its all down to us burning fossil fuels in the last few decades.

 

[OxygenJames]

Yes. Evidence that the climate is changing. And? It's been changing since time began. At the time of Magna Carta there is reference to vineyards half way up the UK - ie it was hotter then than it is now. You've been conned if you think its all down to us burning fossil fuels in the last few decades.

 

[flecc]

I agree that car driving has been attractive. And it damn well still is one those cold mornings with high winds with heavy rain!

That's the third reason people stick with cars instead of cycling in the UK. My second reason was the safety one, people's fear of traffic.
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[OxygenJames]

View attachment 30407

It was the medieval warm period that Michael Mann erased from his data to make his famous 'hockey stick' graph (the one the IPCC etc used to scare everybody shitless that temperature had been a flat line until the last few decades).

 

[flecc]

"His doubts about climate change". Ah. Sweet music to my ears. If there is one topic where 99.999% of the population have lost all ability to think rationally - it is that. And before you jump down my throat - I too was a bought up member of the cult - until I read 'A disgrace to the profession' about Michael Mann's hockey stick graph. The science is NOT over. There is MUCH we do not understand. The link between man-made CO2 and temperatures is NOT confirmed in ANY shape or form.

And so on.

I've always been an environmentalist at heart and my actions from 1970 on are proof of my being way ahead of the game and its politics.

But I wholly agree about climate change. It is very real, but it's far from proven that we are the cause or even involved to any great degree.

But two things are very real. One is severe urban air polution, the other the species damage we are doing as we expand our global influence. Both are well proven and irrefutable.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Satellite and airborne surveys are credible evidences.
You have the loss of polar ice - I don't think many people will dispute that.

Irrespective of the reality of situation how many have actually changed anything they do.
That fool Thompson spent £5k each way to fly over to help cause for Rebellion Extinction. Flew back in business class tucking into beef. Goes beyond hypocrisy.
How many on here jump to attack OJ and then jump on their motorbikes or in their cars,fly off on holidays but still find time to shout about climate change. If change needs to happen it starts with us problem is I love my car, boat and jetski and I aint sitting in cold come winter. I, ll turn heating up or fly abroad.
How much affect do we actually have on a global scale anyway. Yes we can improve local air quality but global warming? Is it us with our cars and log burners or Chinese, American etc etc etc industry?
Rather like telling your kids not to pee in baths knowing full well the other 50 kids in there are doing...???

 

[Woosh]

Yes. Evidence that the climate is changing. And? It's been changing since time began. At the time of Magna Carta there is reference to vineyards half way up the UK - ie it was hotter then than it is now. You've been conned if you think its all down to us burning fossil fuels in the last few decades.

it's the velocity of change that is of great concern.
Previously, ice caps grew and shrank, but over centuries and millennia. Now, they shrink at an alarming rate, over decades. We have to extrapolate from present day evidence, we just can't keep our fingers crossed that new technologies are invented in time, within decades, to stop the loss of ice.
Just look at the progress of nuclear fusion. Theoretically possible, even proofs of concept done, but we lack the technology to make the container vessels. How long before we can have nuclear fusion reactors to generate our electricity?
God knows.

 

[oldgroaner]

Just a couple of observations, it is hard to imagine that an increase in air temperature can break up a mile or more thick ice sheet, but vulcanism certainly can and is most likely a large part of the cause of loss
Active Volcanoes under Antarctica
Which means there is a lava chamber down there and a plume.

The other heat sources would take generations to achieve any impact.
This is the Average Air temperature range
"The average annual temperature ranges from about −10°C on the Antarctic coast to −60°C at the highest parts of the interior. Near the coast the temperature can exceed +10°C at times in summer and fall to below −40°C in winter.18 Feb 2019 "

An air temperature of +10 would struggle to remove last years snowfall

And the average sea temperature range
"
The Antarctic bottom water (AABW) is a type ofwater mass in the Southern Ocean surrounding Antarctica with temperatures ranging from −0.8 to 2 °C (35 °F), salinities from 34.6 to 34.7 psu.

How does such a slight positive seasonable temperature rupture a huge ice sheet miles form the sea?
Answer it simply can't
It has to be coming from geothermal energy on a huge scale.

As to the Global temperatures rising, OK there might be a case there, but in fact there is a very positive aspect of this.
We are overdue for the next glacial period, and having 2 miles of ice over your head would eliminate all northern and southern populations.

Easier to keep the place warm and deal with what comparatively are minor problems than being ground to dust by unstoppable ice sheets that could take thousands of years to retreat.

And it would only take one supereruption of Yellowstone, Tambura or Santorini to create a Nuclear winter and kick in an ice age., and they could happen at any time.
Global warming problems are small beer compared to natural disasters like those.
We could end up having to artificially warm the place up!

Just s thought to consider, if it proves that geothermal plumes under the crust are melting the ice, what good will any new technology we are capable of concocting be?

 

[Woosh]

Yes. Evidence that the climate is changing. And? It's been changing since time began. At the time of Magna Carta there is reference to vineyards half way up the UK - ie it was hotter then than it is now. You've been conned if you think its all down to us burning fossil fuels in the last few decades.

Your map's range is + or - half a degree and the change was over 2,000 years.
If it's enough to grow grapes then it's enough to be alarmed.

 

[Woosh]

Just a couple of observations, it is hard to imagine that an increase in air temperature can break up a mile or more thick ice sheet, but vulcanism certainly can and is most likely a large part of the cause of loss

You could say that the artic ice sheet does not matter if it melts but the artic ice sheet is not a mile thick, it's only 6ft thick on average.
It's only at the North Pole that the ice is 12ft-15ft thick.

 

[Woosh]

The other heat sources would take generations to achieve any impact.

Antartic volcanoes don't melt large areas of ice. if they do, you would see them from the sky.

 

[vfr400]

interesting take from the Guardian about Farage:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/13/nigel-farage-brexit-party-event-terrifying-glimpse-future

Quoting from the Guardian? Really!

 

[Woosh]

Quoting from the Guardian? Really!

Do you disagree with the contents of the article or your sarcasm is just because it's from the Guardian?

 

[oldgroaner]

You could say that the artic ice sheet does not matter if it melts but the artic ice sheet is not a mile thick, it's only 6ft thick on average.
It's only at the North Pole that the ice is 12ft-15ft thick.

The figures and data were for the South Pole, Woosh which is a land mass by and large and calculations of thickness by the relationship of ice height over water (the only 20% rule) don't work there.
Regular core samples that can be compared would be better surely?
This article is interesting
https://www.dw.com/en/antarctica-is-melting-from-below-and-thats-bad-news/a-43239093
It takes a leap of faith to believe a temperature increase of this level
"With an increase of 0.76 degrees Celsius (1.4 degrees Fahrenheit) above the reference period in 2016, oceanic warming surpassed the previous year's record of 0.74 degrees Celsius (1.3 degrees Fahrenheit). Several regions even went beyond the 1 or 2 degree Celsius mark. "
Could melt ice over a mile down in the Antarctic, or even for that matter get that far down where there is little movement.

I still maintain it's likely that a moving hot spot would be a more likely candidate, and variations in the Earth's magnetic field seem to indicate something odd is happening

 

[oldgroaner]

Antartic volcanoes don't melt large areas of ice. if they do, you would see them from the sky.

We do,naturally we can only see the top! which incidentally looks quite pristine.
What they could do is melt the base of the ice at the sea bed and detach it, and clearly something is.

 

[Danidl]

Sounds like some utopian dream. People like to be in control. Self-driving cars are not about to take over. To think so is to ignore that simple human drive - to be in control. It runs deep in our psyche. Why do you think 'take back control' worked so well for the Leave campaign?

To think that you will be able to ban people from driving their own cars in London with a decade or so? No way. That is not going to happen.

I can agree with your theory, but it is becoming impracticable.. Like others I value my independence,but I am prepared to compromise when it is in my financial interest. I used to travel by car to Dublin ..Round trip 110 miles, and tolls 6 euro. Now As I have an OAP travel pass, I forgo that pleasure and take the train. Likewise I would like my own ferry to bring me to France, but I don't have 100 million , so I take the commercial option.