Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

Back to brexit:

Liam Fox: No brexit or no deal. That's also the EU's opening position a couple of years ago.

UK will face either no-deal or no Brexit if MPs vote down withdrawal agreement, ministers insist – as it happened

Rolling coverage of the day’s political developments as they happen, including Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn at PMQs

www.theguardian.com

Liam Fox, the international trade secretary, is now taking questions at the Institute for Government.

Q: Your department deals with trade deals outside the EU. But the central trade deal will be with the EU, and your department is not involved in those talks. When will you get involved.

Fox says talks are currently going on about how to create a “single architecture”, so that there is not a divergence between the trade regime with the EU and the trade regime with the rest of the world.

Q: What if the UK stays in the customs union?

Fox says he does not want to see the UK stay in a customs union.

He says other countries would not want to sign trade deals with the UK if it were in a temporary customs union with the EU, and they did not know when it was going to end.

 

[50Hertz]

Probably just easier for us to go extinct.

That’s actually not a bad solution. Compared to the age of the planet, the amount of time that humans have occupied it is an insignificantly small blip. When we are gone, perhaps things will return to normal and the blip in time when humans were here will just be a freak event.

 

[flecc]

We can probably generate electricity from nuclear fusion and make synthetic food in the next century.

I don't think we can justify "probably" where nuclear fusion is concerned. Personally I think it's unlikely we'll achieve an adequate in to out energy ratio and will adopt other methods to manage without. We are already doing quite well in that direction.

As for synthetic food, quality of life comes into it. We've already seriously affected our quality of life in many ways as part of coping with our growing population. Judging by what we've achieved so far, synthetic food is a very poor substitute for the real thing. And of course it has to made from something, still depleting resources with an oversize population. Even "Soylent Green" will need supplementation.
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[flecc]

That’s actually not a bad solution. Compared to the age of the planet, the amount of time that humans have occupied it is an insignificantly small blip. When we are gone, perhaps things will return to normal and the blip in time when humans were here will just be a freak event.

Indeed, I've often likened the human race to a disease. Like a disease it spreads out of control, consuming and destroying its host and ultimately itself.
.

 

[flecc]

Here's an idea...lets talk about Iran, where shall we start.

Nice climate.
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[Zlatan]

Indeed, I've often likened the human race to a disease. Like a disease it spreads out of control, consuming and destroying its host and ultimately itself.
.

We are a cheery lot on this beautiful morning. Taking grandkids out on boat this pm, then perhaps jetski, then fire BBQ up for some nice steaks and a couple of beers with mates... Hard life...
I, ll let you lot sort our Brexit, Global warming, pollution, human extinction and feeding us all. Not much to ask...
Without humans planet is pointless, a mere rock with a few dumb animals. We might represent but a fleeting moment in earth's history, but the only meaningful one. Afterall we built pedelecs and moral height of Jeremy Kyle. Cant fault that can you.
Last paragraph very tongue in cheek BTW.

 

[Woosh]

I don't think we can justify "probably" where nuclear fusion is concerned. Personally I think it's unlikely we'll achieve an adequate in to out energy ratio and will adopt other methods to manage without. We are already doing quite well in that direction.

As for synthetic food, quality of life comes into it. We've already seriously affected our quality of life in many ways as part of coping with our growing population. Judging by what we've achieved so far, synthetic food is a very poor substitute for the real thing. And of course it has to made from something, still depleting resources with an oversize population. Even "Soylent Green" will need supplementation.
.

we already half way into making synthetic food, wheat and Quorn for example are produced in a sustainable way.

 

[Woosh]

Taking grandkids out on boat this pm, then perhaps jetski, then fire BBQ up for some nice steaks and a couple of beers with mates... Hard life...

I can see it's a really tough job but someone has to do it.
I am playing snooker with my brother.

 

[flecc]

We are a cheery lot on this beautiful morning.

It's being so cheerful that keeps me going!

I, ll let you lot sort our Brexit, Global warming, pollution, human extinction and feeding us all. Not much to ask...

Can't manage it this morning. Can you pop back this afternoon?
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[flecc]

we already half way into making synthetic food, wheat and Quorn for example are produced in a sustainable way.

That's what I meant, Quorn is disgusting and no substitute for meat. And if you follow the current research on starchy carbohydrates and our whole human history, you'd know how damaging wheat and similar carbohydrates can be to human health.
.

 

[OxygenJames]

It's true that the size of our population is a massive problem. Just because we can devise ways of supporting it short term is not an excuse for it since it is inevitably depleting the planets resources.

With modern technology and the end of the age of doing everything manually with huge numbers, we only need less than a billion people to be able to continue with our modern world. China with around 1.2 billion proves it by making everything for itself and billions of others.

With less than one billion humans using resources, the planet wont be far from permanent resource self sustainability.

The problem is how to get to that, even if we were able to adopt China's recent harsh population control measures, it would take many hundreds of years to reduce to one eighth of the present population. And throughout that period of many lifetimes we'd have to suffer the economic and social consequences of an unbalanced ratio of old to young.

Probably just easier for us to go extinct.
.

Sorry Flecc thats an old outdated idea. Resources are now actually more abundant now than in 1980. How you ask? Because the wealthier we are - the cheaper it becomes to get stuff out of the ground. Yeah - defies logic - but those are the facts. Check it out for yourself. Resources actually grow as the population grows.

I know OG hates this place - but check it out.

Why Falling Birth Rates Aren't Something to Celebrate

www.humanprogress.org

 

[gray198]

It's true that the size of our population is a massive problem. Just because we can devise ways of supporting it short term is not an excuse for it since it is inevitably depleting the planets resources.

is it not true to say that a lot of overpopulation is really a result of the advance of medical science, in as much as that the human population was once controlled to some degree by global pandemics and plagues. Throw into that some major worldwide conflicts and wars as a self inflicted control. We know that in nature events constantly evolve and the natural world is to a large degree controlled by events. On top of this medical advancements mean people live longer particularly in the western world. Obviously no one wants to go back to those days so we have got to get much more astute at using resources

 

[oyster]

Here's an idea...lets talk about Iran, where shall we start.

In the recent past, Iran has been publishing quite a number of papers on various forms of medical research. Sometimes interesting to see a slightly different perspective.

Perhaps a bit of a surprise to see them indexed in PubMed - the major USA site.

 

[flecc]

Sorry Flecc thats an old outdated idea. Resources are now actually more abundant now than in 1980. How you ask? Because the wealthier we are - the cheaper it becomes to get stuff out of the ground. Yeah - defies logic - but those are the facts. Check it out for yourself. Resources actually grow as the population grows.

Yes, I'm familiar with all that and don't disagree. But ultimately resources are finite and it's not all about resources anyway.
Remember my remark about species decline in variety and quantity. Also my remark about the quality of life and the ways that has not just improved in some ways but also declined in very many ways due to population growth and technical advancement.
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[flecc]

we have got to get much more astute at using resources

And the most astute way is to limit the population to make the world's resources self sustaining and protect the natural world.
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[oldgroaner]

Sorry Flecc thats an old outdated idea. Resources are now actually more abundant now than in 1980. How you ask? Because the wealthier we are - the cheaper it becomes to get stuff out of the ground. Yeah - defies logic - but those are the facts. Check it out for yourself. Resources actually grow as the population grows.

I know OG hates this place - but check it out.

Why Falling Birth Rates Aren't Something to Celebrate

www.humanprogress.org

Where is this place I am supposed to hate?
There's nothing wrong with America, it just suffers from illegal immigrants, and if you wonder why I say that, ask any American Indian.
Couldn't resist getting a joke in there!
The problem with America is it managed to take all the worst ideas in Europe and wage war in all directions including with itself,swallowing or bullying all the neighbours to enlarge itself, and bled us white to make itself the richest nation on Earth.
They also by the way have huge problems with inequality and poverty, let you die if you can't afford medical insurance and generally have an even more bombastic and arrogant attitude to the rest of the world than we do.
And their achievements in farming include converting huge productive areas into a desert that took a generation to sort out.
Oh and the icing on the cake is that they have a geriatric suffering from Dementia as a President.
And now some traitorous nut cases this side of the Atlantic want to swap membership of a club, which saved when we were in dire straits, and made us rich, to become a subservient colony of America?
Apart from those few minor problems, I love the place

By the way I enjoyed the link, I'm sure the people that produced it think that when we have over populated this side of their flat Earth model, we can always fly round to the underside and populate that ,escorted by that Nice Mr Trumps American Space Force to kill off any native life or herd them into reservations, after all it worked so well here, didn't it?

And let's not forget these same Americans had a penchant for this
Eugenics in America
"
Eugenics: Compulsory Sterilization in 50 American States
American eugenics refers inter alia to compulsory sterilization laws adopted by over 30 states that led to more than 60,000 sterilizations of disabled individuals. Many of these individuals were sterilized because of a disability: they were mentally disabled or ill, or belonged to socially disadvantaged groups living on the margins of society. American eugenic laws and practices implemented in the first decades of the twentieth century influenced the much larger National Socialist compulsory sterilization program, which between 1934 and 1945 led to approximately 350,000 compulsory sterilizations and was a stepping stone to the Holocaust. Even after the details of the Nazi sterilization program (as well as its role as a precursor to the "Euthanasia" murders) became more widely known after World War II (and which the New York Times had reported on extensively and in great detail even before its implementation in 1934), sterilizations in some American states did not stop. Some states continued to sterilize residents into the 1970s.

So we are supposed to admire a country that showed the Nazis what to do?
And virtually erased the native population and dispossessed them of their land and rights?

It would be safer to trust you would be safe to swim among hungry sharks.

 

[flecc]

Where is this place I am supposed to hate?
There's nothing wrong with America, it just suffers from illegal immigrants, and if you wonder why I say that, ask any American Indian.
Couldn't resist getting a joke in there!
The problem with America is it managed to take all the worst ideas in Europe and wage war in all directions including with itself,swallowing or bullying all the neighbours to enlarge itself, and bled us white to make itself the richest nation on Earth.
They also by the way have huge problems with inequality and poverty, let you die if you can't afford medical insurance and generally have an even more bombastic and arrogant attitude to the rest of the world than we do.
And their achievements in farming include converting huge productive areas into a desert that took a generation to sort out.
Oh and the icing on the cake is that they have a geriatric suffering from Dementia as a President.
And now some traitorous nut cases this side of the Atlantic want to swap membership of a club, to become a subservient colony of America
Apart from those few minor problems, I love the place

In essence you are saying North America is a really nice place, just a pity about the people!
.

 

[oldgroaner]

In essence you are saying North America is a really nice place, just a pity about the people!
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Only some of the people, flecc, most of the people are actually victims, pretty much the same as here
And unfortunately as in most processes , scum rise to the top.
People are after all pretty much the same everywhere.No better, no worse.
The only thing that varies is the Political systems and avarice of politicians and corporate interests.
Lets face it America is even keener on having an Empire than we were.

They act as vigilantes very much in the spirit of the word

"Vigilante.....a member of a self-appointed group of citizens who undertake law enforcement in their community without legal authority, typically because the legal agencies are thought to be inadequate."

 

[flecc]

Lets face it America is even keener on having an Empire than we were.

Not a land empire, that they hate with a passion as a result of their own experiences when we ruled them, so they set out long ago to destroy other's land empires with great success.

Their aim is an empire of the mind, wanting all others to think and act as they do.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Not a land empire, that they hate with a passion as a result of their own experiences when we ruled them, so they set out long ago to destroy other's land empires with great success.

Their aim is an empire of the mind, wanting all others to think and act as they do.
.

Historically Flecc they are actually a land Empire themselves that has morphed into a single entity,and they had a phase of acquiring foreign dominions too
They still hang on to some far flung places even now