Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Now, you can see why Tommy Robinson and his crew , when on his Brexit camapign trail, react in a fairly substantial way whenever anybody threatens violence against them. He's been under a fatwa for years. How would you handle it if you were in his position, other than be a coward?

Believe it or not, there was even shown, where someone from South Wales Police official account posted a like on someone else's post about how great the attack was.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1124639417715572737

What was your purpose in claiming he is under a Fatwa? are you making an accusation against the Muslim community, as the term is a religious one, not applicable to UK authorities.
Why are you actively promoting his so called "cause"?
Didn't you read his rap sheet?
Here it is again linked and verbatim as reported
https://www.the-round.co.uk/charges-on-tommy-robinson-rap-sheet/
"
Listen to the wrong people and you would be led to believe that Tommy Robinson is a free speech warrior and a political prisoner, who’s only crime is exposing establishment lies.

The truth, however, is completely different. Robinson, real name Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, has committed multiple offences with absolutely none of them having anything to with being a free speech martyr.

Assault
In 2005, Robinson was jailed for 12 months for assault occasioning actual bodily harm, for which he was sentenced to 12 months’ imprisonment, and assault with intent to resist arrest, for which he received a concurrent term of three months.

Assaulting a police officer
In 2010, Robinson was charged with assaulting a police officer during clashes at a poppy burning protest. After the fighting, a police officer was taken to hospital after trying to intervene in a 50 man brawl.

Rooftop protest
In 2011, Robinson and EDL co-founder Kevin Carroll flew to Zurich to protest on the roof of a FIFA building that England were not allowed to wear poppies on their kit because of FIFA’s political symbol ban. They were fined £3,000 for their troubles.

Assault at his own rally
In 2011, Robinson was convicted of assault for an attack at an EDL march in Blackburn. After he was goaded for being a government and police informant Robinson launched into a verbal tirade against those protesting against him. Robinson then proceeded to headbutt one of the march goers.

Luton football riot
In July 2011, Robinson was found guilty of leading a brawl that included 100 Luton Town football fans into a fight with Newport County fans. Fans were heard chanting ‘EDL till I die.’ For the crime committed, he was given a suspended 12-month prison sentence and banned from Luton football matches for 3 years.

Using someone else’s passport
In January 2013 Robinson was jailed for 10 months for travelling to the USA on his friend’s passport. Robinson admitted the charge of possession of a false identity document with improper intention. The passport Robinson used was under the name of Andrew McMaster. He checked himself in on the way out from Heathrow airport however when he arrived in the USA customs officials took his fingerprints and realised he was using a passport that was not his own.

Mortgage fraud
In 2014, Tommy Robinson was sentenced to prison for 18 months for committing mortgage fraud with the crime dating back to 2009. After pleading guilty in November 2013 to committing £160,000 worth of mortgage fraud Robinson was sentenced at St Albans Crown Court.

Whilst passing the sentence, the judge told Robinson: ‘This was an operation which was fraudulent from the outset and involved a significant amount of forward planning.’

“I am satisfied you took part in a thoroughly dishonest course of conduct,’ he told him.

Contempt of court 1
In 2017, Robinson was given a 3 month suspended sentence after he admitted a contempt of court charge for attempting to photograph juvenile defendant in a court case whilst having no right to do so. Court security had told Robinson not to film in and around the court as it would lead to his arrest. The 3 month suspended sentence could be activated within 18 months.

Contempt of court 2
Finally, earlier this year, the crucial case that led to Robinson being jailed and sparked the ridiculous Free Tommy protests. Robinson is currently serving a 13-month sentence for contempt of court. Robinson was arrested after Facebook live streaming outside Leeds Crown Court for an hour despite their being reporting restrictions on the case. Because he had a suspended sentence for the same crime the judge sentenced Robinson to 13 months in prison. Robinson pled guilty.

Are you claiming this list is untrue? because if it isn't it makes the man
unfit to stand for any public office.

 

[Woosh]

If nothing else it demonstrates how gullible people can be!

it seems to me that vfr400 tries to convince himself that his candidate TR has a chance if people like Carl Benjamin do as well.
Candidates who flout the law on anti discrimination should be arrested.

 

[oldgroaner]

I’m no fan of Tommy Robinson, but the tolerance and the approval of acts of violence against him isn’t right. The police disgust me. I don’t know what’s happening to them.

They have been told to "keep the lid on the situation and play it down"
There is logic to this in that the Likes of Robinson engender hostile reactions that could end up with rioting in the streets.

 

[flecc]

All it does is to bring back half of the conservative voters who defected to Farage's BXP back to vote conservatives again, thus reversing his recent tactical win in the local elections.

I think you are too heavily discounting the conservative Leave voters anger at getting a Brino brexit. I don't see them trooping back into the fold so readily.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

it seems to me that vfr400 tries to convince himself that his candidate TR has a chance if people like Carl Benjamin do as well.
Candidates who flout the law on anti discrimination should be arrested.

I can't understand why anyone would support someone who sets himself up as an expert in this way
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/22/tommy-robinson-ukip-grooming-gangs-adviser
Ye Gods! what a role model!
And it doesn't seem to be much of a crowd puller for the UKIP does it?

 

[Nev]

But if he succeeds in having customs union added to May's deal as seems increasingly likely, that's soft Brexit making him the winner in the end.

Watching John Mcdonnell on the Marr programme this morning it didn't look like there was much chance of the talks getting anywhere. Mcdonnell said quite clearly that he did not trust May and that she was not negotiating for the good of the country but to try and preserve something for her legacy.

I have my doubts that Labour would win the next GE with JC in charge. I think the local council elections put the Conservatives and Labour both at 28%. Bear in mind this is with May in charge, come the next GE the Conservatives will have a new leader who will almost certainly have a better popularity rating than JC (would be tough to find anyone with a worse one).

I agree with flecc, if there is another referendum then remain would probably win for the reasons he has given before. Remainers would make more of an effort to vote, many didn't bother last time as they thought remain would win. Many leavers would not vote a second time as they would feel there was not point as the establishment would ignore the result if leave won again.

 

[oldgroaner]

Watching John Mcdonnell on the Marr programme this morning it didn't look like there was much chance of the talks getting anywhere. Mcdonnell said quite clearly that he did not trust May and that she was not negotiating for the good of the country but to try and preserve something for her legacy.

I have my doubts that Labour would win the next GE with JC in charge. I think the local council elections put the Conservatives and Labour both at 28%. Bear in mind this is with May in charge, come the next GE the Conservatives will have a new leader who will almost certainly have a better popularity rating than JC (would be tough to find anyone with a worse one).

I agree with flecc, if there is another referendum then remain would probably win for the reasons he has given before. Remainers would make more of an effort to vote, many didn't bother last time as they thought remain would win. Many leavers would not vote a second time as they would feel there was not point as the establishment would ignore the result if leave won again.

And if there isn't a second referendum and May and JC agree her deal, it is very much in the long term interest of the Labour Party that the Conservatives remain in power to catch the Brino flak, as they can always claim that the deal was OK but the Conservatives handled everything badly!

 

[daveboy]

Will they try to push a deal through before the 23rd of may to avoid the wrath of the voters ?

 

[Nev]

Watching John Mcdonnell on the Marr programme this morning it didn't look like there was much chance of the talks getting anywhere.

A lot more info on this here

Brexit: John McDonnell pours cold water on May's customs union plan

Shadow chancellor says he has no trust in PM and likens Brexit talks to dealing with firm that is going bust

www.theguardian.com

 

[Nev]

Will they try to push a deal through before the 23rd of may to avoid the wrath of the voters ?

I suspect if it was just down to TM and JC then yes they probably would, but there are other people involved who will not agree to a fudge to get TM and JC off the hook of the EU elections.

 

[RossG]

I think we have the option to unilaterally cancel Article 50.

For the image of the country, the Brexit process has been like going to the gents in a crowded pub, and then returning to the bar having forgotten to put your knob away. Just something best forgotten and never mentioned again.

I'm rolling about with laughter here..

 

[flecc]

I have my doubts that Labour would win the next GE with JC in charge. I think the local council elections put the Conservatives and Labour both at 28%. Bear in mind this is with May in charge, come the next GE the Conservatives will have a new leader who will almost certainly have a better popularity rating than JC (would be tough to find anyone with a worse one).

I think it's important not to discount the anger that Leavers feel with Theresa May and the Tories. A huge proportion of them wanted No Deal from the outset, and quickly. But what May delivered was nothing like it and it's taken forever in their view.

I think in a new national election the Tories will be more severely punished with many Leavers deserting to other Leave parties as a protest. The softer the Brexit we get, the greater the protest will be.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Sorry to disagree, Brexit has not been valuable, just expensive and divisive, and there is little evidence to support people being aware of policies in the EU any more that they were before, More likely they haven't bothered to check.
All they have learned is that the whole process and those involved is shambolic.
How on earth do you think it has been beneficial? and even more unlikely, what makes you think our MP's have had a shake up?
They are as happy as rats let loose in a food store and making a pile for themselves at our expense.
The reason that there haven't been riots is simple.
Nothing has actually happened that directly costs the public money or creates shortages, when it does, watch the fur and feathers fly.

Each to his own OG.. Fair post BTW, understand your reasoning.... But dont agree. We, ve all learnt a lot over last couple of years and we, ve learned a lot about our politicians.

 

[vfr400]

If nothing else it demonstrates how gullible people can be!

Why do you say that? what has he said that you don't agree with?

 

[Woosh]

I think it's important not to discount the anger that Leavers feel with Theresa May and the Tories. A huge proportion of them wanted No Deal from the outset, and quickly. But what May delivered was nothing like it and it's taken forever in their view.

on the contrary. I reckon most of them would breathe a sigh of relief that brexit does not cost them much, their holiday home and plan for retirement to Spain are still safe.

 

[vfr400]

it seems to me that vfr400 tries to convince himself that his candidate TR has a chance if people like Carl Benjamin do as well.
Candidates who flout the law on anti discrimination should be arrested.

I think you're misunderstanding something, or maybe I'm misunderstanding you. Which candidates have flouted the law on discrimination? Can you provide an example?

 

[vfr400]

What was your purpose in claiming he is under a Fatwa? are you making an accusation against the Muslim community, as the term is a religious one, not applicable to UK authorities.
Why are you actively promoting his so called "cause"?
Didn't you read his rap sheet?
Here it is again linked and verbatim as reported
https://www.the-round.co.uk/charges-on-tommy-robinson-rap-sheet/
"
Listen to the wrong people and you would be led to believe that Tommy Robinson is a free speech warrior and a political prisoner, who’s only crime is exposing establishment lies.

The truth, however, is completely different. Robinson, real name Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, has committed multiple offences with absolutely none of them having anything to with being a free speech martyr.

Assault
In 2005, Robinson was jailed for 12 months for assault occasioning actual bodily harm, for which he was sentenced to 12 months’ imprisonment, and assault with intent to resist arrest, for which he received a concurrent term of three months.

Assaulting a police officer
In 2010, Robinson was charged with assaulting a police officer during clashes at a poppy burning protest. After the fighting, a police officer was taken to hospital after trying to intervene in a 50 man brawl.

Rooftop protest
In 2011, Robinson and EDL co-founder Kevin Carroll flew to Zurich to protest on the roof of a FIFA building that England were not allowed to wear poppies on their kit because of FIFA’s political symbol ban. They were fined £3,000 for their troubles.

Assault at his own rally
In 2011, Robinson was convicted of assault for an attack at an EDL march in Blackburn. After he was goaded for being a government and police informant Robinson launched into a verbal tirade against those protesting against him. Robinson then proceeded to headbutt one of the march goers.

Luton football riot
In July 2011, Robinson was found guilty of leading a brawl that included 100 Luton Town football fans into a fight with Newport County fans. Fans were heard chanting ‘EDL till I die.’ For the crime committed, he was given a suspended 12-month prison sentence and banned from Luton football matches for 3 years.

Using someone else’s passport
In January 2013 Robinson was jailed for 10 months for travelling to the USA on his friend’s passport. Robinson admitted the charge of possession of a false identity document with improper intention. The passport Robinson used was under the name of Andrew McMaster. He checked himself in on the way out from Heathrow airport however when he arrived in the USA customs officials took his fingerprints and realised he was using a passport that was not his own.

Mortgage fraud
In 2014, Tommy Robinson was sentenced to prison for 18 months for committing mortgage fraud with the crime dating back to 2009. After pleading guilty in November 2013 to committing £160,000 worth of mortgage fraud Robinson was sentenced at St Albans Crown Court.

Whilst passing the sentence, the judge told Robinson: ‘This was an operation which was fraudulent from the outset and involved a significant amount of forward planning.’

“I am satisfied you took part in a thoroughly dishonest course of conduct,’ he told him.

Contempt of court 1
In 2017, Robinson was given a 3 month suspended sentence after he admitted a contempt of court charge for attempting to photograph juvenile defendant in a court case whilst having no right to do so. Court security had told Robinson not to film in and around the court as it would lead to his arrest. The 3 month suspended sentence could be activated within 18 months.

Contempt of court 2
Finally, earlier this year, the crucial case that led to Robinson being jailed and sparked the ridiculous Free Tommy protests. Robinson is currently serving a 13-month sentence for contempt of court. Robinson was arrested after Facebook live streaming outside Leeds Crown Court for an hour despite their being reporting restrictions on the case. Because he had a suspended sentence for the same crime the judge sentenced Robinson to 13 months in prison. Robinson pled guilty.

Are you claiming this list is untrue? because if it isn't it makes the man
unfit to stand for any public office.

While some of those facts are true, as well you know, it gives a misrepresentation of his criminality. There's a reason why 30,000 people turned up to get him out of jail. This video explains everything if anybody wants to know the truth. It saves me having to spend my good time explaining it.

 

[Woosh]

I think you're misunderstanding something, or maybe I'm misunderstanding you. Which candidates have flouted the law on discrimination? Can you provide an example?

I was talking about Carl Benjamin and what he called a joke.

MP Jess Phillips says Ukip candidate Carl Benjamin should be banned

LABOUR MP Jess Phillips says a Ukip EU elections candidate who said he might rape her should be banned from standing. Carl Benjamin sent her a tweet in 2016 saying: “I wouldn’t even rape you.” And …

www.thesun.co.uk

 

[flecc]

on the contrary. I reckon most of them would breathe a sigh of relief that brexit does not cost them much, their holiday home and plan for retirement to Spain are still safe.

Depends on when the next GE is. If it's soon to resolve this Brexit issue, I don't see the anger subsiding as quickly as you do.

If it's at the end of the five year term, you could be right, but perhaps not if the trade talks have committed us to large annual payments into the EU, which is likely. Trading access doesn't come free, as Norway knows.
.

 

[RossG]

Hey..just seen a picture of Gavin Williamson on Sky News holding a milkshake ! another convert.