I agree, nobody wants May's deal ...I would vote remain rather than May's deal...
A vote on May's deal or No deal would be better.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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A vote on May's deal or No deal would be better.
I think it’s difficult to take any opinion on Leave or Remain from the Local election, but as you say, the EU election may give a clearer indication.
I can’t believe that a disgruntled and hardened leaver would vote for the LibDems, a confirmed Remain group, in protest. I think the gains made by the LibDems may be telling us something, and that is the appetite for Leaving is reducing.
The voices that May should be hearing when she listens to the public, should be telling her that a new referendum is needed. Brexit is nothing like what people expected or were promised. Brexit has changed so much, people need to be asked if it’s still what they want. I think this is now starting to be reflected in the local election results, and in the polls.
Now, you can see why Tommy Robinson and his crew , when on his Brexit camapign trail, react in a fairly substantial way whenever anybody threatens violence against them. He's been under a fatwa for years. How would you handle it if you were in his position, other than be a coward?
Believe it or not, there was even shown, where someone from South Wales Police official account posted a like on someone else's post about how great the attack was.
Believe it or not, there was even shown, where someone from South Wales Police official account posted a like on someone else's post about how great the attack was.
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I doubt that conservative brexit voters are so disgusted by TM or JC that they would go out to vote for the Libdems or the Greens. It's more likely that they stayed at home while those remainers who regretted not voting in the last referendum went out to vote this time.
You just look at places like St Albans where Libdems won from the conservatives to see this scenario.
May has foolishly always taken far too hard a line with Brexit means Brexit. The referendum result was far too marginal to be that emphatic, so now she's paying the price.
Corbyn wanted to reflect the close result democratically as he saw it, with a very soft Brexit. For a long time that apparent sitting on the fence appeared to make him wrong and he's been attacked for it. But if he succeeds in having customs union added to May's deal as seems increasingly likely, that's soft Brexit making him the winner in the end.
The media have been getting this wrong all along, as have you, both of you failing to see the signs. Remember Glastonbury, no-one has been singing "Oh Theresa May" have they? And if there's another GE now it's recognised that Corbyn would probably form the next government with a Labour led coalition. And meanwhile Corbyn is in control of whether May's deal gets through or not.
It all points one way, Corbyn being the winner in the end, getting his own way on all counts, much to Tory disgust.
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With parliament totally ruling ot no deal, that can never happen.
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at the time she set her red lines, she still believed she could get a deal with the EU that did not involve the NI backstop.
Indeed, and for a long time and long before the media saw it, I've been saying Remain would easily win a fresh referendum with a handsome margin.
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Never is a long time...…… Labour and Brexit party coalition anyone ?
Conservative and Brexit party coalition anyone ?
No chance with Corbyn leading Labour and so many Labour MPs being Remainers.
No Deal is permanently out of the question.
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With the very close referendum result we had, her red lines were always ridiculous. Democratically the result dictated an openly negotiated agreement with the EU with no hard line prior positions.
Her stupidity, and Cameron's in having the referendum, was the prior failure to even be aware of the Irish Border situation and its implications if Leaving the EU. This blame is possibly shared by the civil service who should have forcefully warned of those consequences before any referendum was held.
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Do we know they did not?
Pig-headed politicians (not initially intended to be a Cameron reference) often ignore excellent advice.
I’m no fan of Tommy Robinson, but the tolerance and the approval of acts of violence against him isn’t right. The police disgust me. I don’t know what’s happening to them.
We don't know, hence my saying possibly in my post.
But with such serious implications and the seniority of the Home Office and Foreign Office who should both be well up to speed on this issue, I find it difficult to believe their dire warnings, if made, would have been ignored.
We in pedelecs know only too well with the DfT that the civil service can fall well short of how they should perform.
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Once again the politicians and their policies are to blame.
Long ago it appeared that the necessarily secret policy was to move to two or more layers of policing like that in so many other countries. For examples:
Local police plus FBI/National Guard in the USA.
Local Agents du Police and Gendarmerie in France.
Local police and Carabinieri in Italy.
The subtle signs were that the police were losing local duties in these ways:
Parking control, first moved to traffic wardens, then later to local authorities.
Traffic directing moved to traffic wardens.
Limited powers local police introduced to deal with local issues, such as PCSOs, Neighbourhood Enforcement Officers, Parks Police etc.
Closing numerous local police stations.
Appointing Police and Crime Commissioners instead of the previous locally more democratic Police Authorities.
Merging police forces into larger more distantly accessible bodies made the police ever more remote from the public and increasingly under the central control. In Scotland all the forces have already been merged into one big remote force, and the London Metropolitan Police have always been under Home Office Control of course.
These and other changes like the creation of specialist groups within the police such as Anti-Terrorist, Sex Crime or Internet Abuse again makes them remote from the public and the public's wishes
For many years it's been apparent to me that this was an intentional policy of turning the main police into an upper layer of centrally politically controlled policing, leaving us with a reduced skills lower layer for local issues.
Effectively now the main police are largely a politically controlled body following government orders and policies. I think the financial cuts may also have a political dimension, since they prevent the police from adequately dealing with local issues, only funded to deal with the politically directed ones. And they have become an army with body armour, deadly weapons in specially trained hands and civil control methods like Tasers, Pepper Spray and metal batons. Like an army, they are moved around the country in large numbers to deal with situations, regardless of where they are based.
So Tommy and his ilk are hardly likely to get any sympathy, especially since the police, being an institution, are the establishment.
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it's difficult to see JC's winning if he makes a deal with TM for a soft brexit.
The City does not expect to see brexit any time soon, his MPs don't want brexit.
a deal with TM may soothe his Eurosceptic soul but won't win him votes and make him PM. All it does is to bring back half of the conservative voters who defected to Farage's BXP back to vote conservatives again, thus reversing his recent tactical win in the local elections.
If nothing else it demonstrates how gullible people can be!
Sorry to disagree, Brexit has not been valuable, just expensive and divisive, and there is little evidence to support people being aware of policies in the EU any more that they were before, More likely they haven't bothered to check.
All they have learned is that the whole process and those involved is shambolic.
How on earth do you think it has been beneficial? and even more unlikely, what makes you think our MP's have had a shake up?
They are as happy as rats let loose in a food store and making a pile for themselves at our expense.
The reason that there haven't been riots is simple.
Nothing has actually happened that directly costs the public money or creates shortages, when it does, watch the fur and feathers fly.
I think we have the option to unilaterally cancel Article 50.
For the image of the country, the Brexit process has been like going to the gents in a crowded pub, and then returning to the bar having forgotten to put your knob away. Just something best forgotten and never mentioned again.