Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

I said argumentitive not vile,which is all OT is.
But OK you and OG come second and third behind him.Hardly a glorious stance by your own admission.

I haven't admitted to any position, just mentioned OT being ahead.

Since I started the thread years ago, it stands to reason I'd be well represented in posts, but that's not a fair comparison since most are much more recent entrants.

Some are certainly making up for time though. Reaching back as far as the Search facility could for Finger's posts, 53 days to 18th January 2019 when the meaningful vote was on May's deal, reveals his 625 posts since then, almost 12 a day.

I didn't even post on some of those days!

However, I can excuse you, since I think it's probably the sheer quality of my posts that makes them stand out.
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

So vote 1,May's deal, is dead.....Cox made sure of that.
Tomorrow parliament will vote No deal off the table...bit strange voting for nothing.
Thursday, parliament will vote for an Art50 extension....maybe the EU will give us a 21month extension,that will suit May,keeps her in office and lots more road to kick the can.
How long before she invents a new form of customs union,which is confused by so much legal jargon that nobody will understand it. Second referendum unlikely more like Labour's Brino,
KudosDave

 

[50Hertz]

Throughout the entire process our government has had its hands tied behind its back by stupid remainers, moaning and knowing better, typified on here.
Folk who sold toilets for a living overnight knew more about our economy than Peter Hargreaves and such and took to their soap boxes. Its been an utter farce ruining any chance of a good deal. Its been like playing poker with your mother looking at your hand shouting to table you cant win with a flush...

There is much truth in that. I would add that our politicians have been exposed for what they are and what we suspected, useless. This is why, I have changed my mind from leaving to remaining, we can’t get out of EU membership with anything like a good deal in the present climate. May’s deal is awful. They should bin the whole idea of leaving.

The best thing that can happen now is for MPs to reject May’s deal, take control of Brexit and to decide for us that we are to remain in the EU. That will intensify the hatred that people feel towards them and many MPs will be disposed of, paving the way for a better standard of MP in the future. Then we can revisit the EU membership question again.

 

[tommie]

So vote 1,May's deal, is dead.....Cox made sure of that.
Tomorrow parliament will vote No deal off the table...bit strange voting for nothing.
Thursday, parliament will vote for an Art50 extension....maybe the EU will give us a 21month extension,that will suit May,keeps her in office and lots more road to kick the can.
How long before she invents a new form of customs union,which is confused by so much legal jargon that nobody will understand it. Second referendum unlikely more like Labour's Brino,
KudosDave

Those `votes` are nothing more than Advisory, with no legal structure within Parliament.
The default legal position is that we leave the European Union, with or without a deal- on 29 March 2019. Only a statutory instrument could override this default legal position and such an instrument would have to be moved by a Minister of the Crown (eg the Government)

Of course they can choose to ignore those Legal niceties.

 

[flecc]

...bit strange voting for nothing.

Not really Dave. If they but knew it, over 90% of the participating electorate vote for nothing at every general election.

And nothing worthwhile is what they get!
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

50 Hertz....Brexit was always going to be a disaster when the referendum vote was so close, 52-48 was no mandate for Brexit,Cameron was stupid and should have put a minimum percentage in favour or declare the referendum null and void.
Theresa May today and Hunt over the weekend both used the same comment 'You are risking no Brexit'....not sure whether that was intentional but 'no Brexit' is music to the ears of most MP's and probably now most of the electorate.I assume May made the comment as a threat to MP's but only the ERG would see it as such.
May and Hunt were remainers,I suspect are still remainers,the cabinet is full of remainers and the civil service is full of remainers....I am told that the ERG are arranging their next meeting in a telephone box,hehe
ps....just in case you didnt realise I am also a remainer.
Leavers are literally a dying breed,in every sense.!!!!
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

There is much truth in that. I would add that our politicians have been exposed for what they are and what we suspected, useless. This is why, I have changed my mind from leaving to remaining, we can’t get out of EU membership with anything like a good deal in the present climate. May’s deal is awful. They should bin the whole idea of leaving.

The best thing that can happen now is for MPs to reject May’s deal, take control of Brexit and to decide for us that we are to remain in the EU. That will intensify the hatred that people feel towards them and many MPs will be disposed of, paving the way for a better standard of MP in the future. Then we can revisit the EU membership question again.

I wonder if there was a plan after all....May and Co planned to make such a mess of Brexit that we would in the end stay in,which is what she wanted....you have to say they have been succesfull ,it would be difficult to make more of a mess of the negotiations.....selecting Boris and Davis with help from Grailing and it was guaranteed.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Those `votes` are nothing more than Advisory, with no legal structure within Parliament.
The default legal position is that we leave the European Union, with or without a deal- on 29 March 2019. Only a statutory instrument could override this default legal position and such an instrument would have to be moved by a Minister of the Crown (eg the Government)

Of course they can choose to ignore those Legal niceties.

Dont forget the original referendum was nothing more than advisory!

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Wish you were but you obviously arent. Just to clarify, I dont own any Porsches or a Porsche. It was a figure of speech.
If you actually read my posts you, d know the car I drive.

Ok, i can see i need to explain this. The fact that you think we read your posts as part of taking an interest in what you drive is what made your post sad. Almost as sad as construing international trade relations as poker. Hint,hollywood pulp is not a good reference for life in an adult world

 

[Danidl]

Charles Walker Vice Chair of 1922 committee said on the radio that if Mays deal is defeated tonight May will have no choice but to call a GE, any thoughts?

Having thought about it a little. When a PM spends 18 months negotiating a treaty, and then finds it shot down in Parliament, the usual and honourable practice is resign. Obviously that PM has given it their best shot.
The options given to her in the last fortnight were utterly unattainable. The EU had said this is our best offer, last December. And indeed it was. That the UK Parliament basically sent her out again to change the unchangeable,shows how unrealistic they have become. The last night legal guarantees were more than she could gave reasonably expected, but were in fact the type of guarantees which would have been forthcoming had they been asked in November.
I listened to the utterly predictable ,and acutely depressing debate on BBC Ulster this lunchtime.
Regrettably most if the participants do not have a clue of where they are going. Typically when a professor in European Law from Liverpool, triedt to explain that" no deal " was not basically "business as usual" the response was " you're just an academic , I'm a businessman,this is Project Fear.

 

[Danidl]

There is much truth in that. I would add that our politicians have been exposed for what they are and what we suspected, useless. This is why, I have changed my mind from leaving to remaining, we can’t get out of EU membership with anything like a good deal in the present climate. May’s deal is awful. They should bin the whole idea of leaving.

The best thing that can happen now is for MPs to reject May’s deal, take control of Brexit and to decide for us that we are to remain in the EU. That will intensify the hatred that people feel towards them and many MPs will be disposed of, paving the way for a better standard of MP in the future. Then we can revisit the EU membership question again.

There is no truth in the supposition that the remauners had any hand act or part in the crafting of the current WA. There is much truth in the supposition that while a majority(even if only wafer thin) wanted out of the EU ,that was as far as their concensus extended. To illustrate this , the primary architects of the Brexit referendum have taken different views on their voting tonight..

 

[Danidl]

Those `votes` are nothing more than Advisory, with no legal structure within Parliament.
The default legal position is that we leave the European Union, with or without a deal- on 29 March 2019. Only a statutory instrument could override this default legal position and such an instrument would have to be moved by a Minister of the Crown (eg the Government)

Of course they can choose to ignore those Legal niceties.

Yours is a valid point, . Again I would ask you what is the minimum legally valid time for a SI to pass all the necessary stages?.

 

[oldgroaner]

Its not complicated OG. Had country showed anything approaching a united approach EU would have relented and offered better terms. As it is they know we are divided and that half country are scared witless about a no deal. Remainers have played right into EU hands. Our stance throughout should have been "we dont care about no deal". I dont think you, ve ever played poker OG... Best hand is often folded. Days, if not hours, after no deal all and sundry would be clamouring for deals(even if it got that far) . Its inevitable. We have allowed EU to put political agenda before trade prosperity. They would change their minds. Fact.
We have underplayed our position and over estimated EU's. We are all up creek with broken paddles. The lot of us. We will be firmly back in EU soon. A shame, country made a decision and MPs have chosen not to honour it.

Zlatan you really are ill informed, my job was to negotiate on behalf on the company in Customer complaints disputes, so save your homespun non wisdom.
First of all the Country had a decision made for it by devious , illegal and immoral means.

The EU held all the cards right from the beginning and anyone with half a brain would have known that.
Sadly like you too many live in a world where they believe things will turn out OK if they they want them hard enough, and they put their trust in false promises from liars, cheats and villains who had neither means, capability or even intention of honouring those promises, and had not even bothered to make a plan.
And by various means they made millions out of the swindled Referendum result
They offered you "Goodies" and people fell for it, kept in line by a typical "Emperors Clothes" trope that remainers were calling them thick, which incidentally was initiated by none other than Gove
The very same individual backing May right now!
It was the EU's Game, right from the start and they had marked cards, a forgone conclusion.
They have in fact been more generous than I expected.
leavers have no one to blame but themselves, if you put yourself int the hands of liars and con artists, then you are the only person you can blame when it inevitably goes wrong as it has .
You are not a victim of what is going on, you voted for it, it couldn't work out any other way than it has.

 

[50Hertz]

I wonder if there was a plan after all....May and Co planned to make such a mess of Brexit that we would in the end stay in,which is what she wanted....you have to say they have been succesfull ,it would be difficult to make more of a mess of the negotiations.....selecting Boris and Davis with help from Grailing and it was guaranteed.
KudosDave

I don’t think they are capable of planning and executing such course of action. They would screw up, screwing up! If they had planned to make a mess of Brexit, MPs would be voting on the most wonderful deal today.

 

[tommie]

Yours is a valid point, . Again I would ask you what is the minimum legally valid time for a SI to pass all the necessary stages?.

There isn`t a definitive time scale - it can be drawn out by members, specifically by a host of Amendments, all of which have to be debated and voted on.

But to address your real point - no not in time by 29th March

 

[Danidl]

There isn`t a definitive time scale - it can be drawn out by members, specifically by a host of Amendments, all of which have to be debated and voted on.

But to address your real point - no not in time by 29th March

But does not the Speaker the right to accept or reject amendments? and perhaps to limit the opportunity for discussion? ..That seems to be what happened a few weeks ago. I am not an avid viewer of either UK or Irish Parliamentary TV, but I did glean that pearl of wisdom
Taking the logic that tomorrow there will be one of these inconclusive votes with a likely outcome of " no deal ,being off the table " ..a mouthful. ,It would take parliamentary draftmen a day to craft the text of a "UK withdraws Article 50 " type Bill. Now if the Remainder ,were such a power in the House,,as is being suggested and choose not to contribute much debate,how fast could they process the business?.
Realistically we are now looking at the" Crashout ". ,,otherwise.
The EU will not be granting an extension ,for the purpose of granting an extension..it must be contingent on an end game,in July. And I assume it would also need the full SI process

If Crashout is what satisfies your wishes..so be it,as even a resolution in favour of "no deal is off the table ", is meaningless, without action on the SI.

 

[Fingers]

AP McCoy and Clare Balding ready for the Cheltenham Festival...

 

[Wicky]

Charles Walker Vice Chair of 1922 committee said on the radio that if Mays deal is defeated tonight May will have no choice but to call a GE, any thoughts?

The very pro Brexit 1922 Commitee are effectively her line managers she has to meet with them regularly and report to them how well she's progressing with their bidding - If she fails yet again with the task then I'm sure the 'men in grey suits' will gratefully give her her P45 and Tories will be hunting for a new mug for the job. Gove or someone even more right wing and committed to Brexit to lead into another GE (as Tories will still be having an internal war within the party) isn't too far fetched a scenario, esp if there's an extension beyond March 29.

 

[Wicky]

I, ll drive you in my last Porsche.

Saw this and for some strange reason thought of you after all your constant bragging...

 

[OxygenJames]

The very pro Brexit 1922 Commitee are effectively her line managers she has to meet with them regularly and report to them how well she's progressing with their bidding - If she fails yet again with the task then I'm sure the 'men in grey suits' will gratefully give her her P45 and Tories will be hunting for a new mug for the job. Gove or someone even more right wing and committed to Brexit to lead into another GE (as Tories will still be having an internal war within the party) isn't too far fetched a scenario, esp if there's an extension beyond March 29.