Brexit, for once some facts.

tommie

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Mar 13, 2013
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BJ describes the problem of the NI border 'a gnat'.
“We are straining at the gnat of the Irish border problem – in fact we haven’t even tried to chew the gnat – and we are swallowing the camel of EU membership in all but name,” he said.
Google it up if you like.
Ahh...so it really was the N.I. Border.. he was referring to....Hmmmm

which was entirely different to your previous assertion of `BJ would` -> “As the Prime Minister has said, ‘no United Kingdom Prime Minister’ could sign up to an arrangement which annexes Northern Ireland from the rest of the United Kingdom.

bottom line here is ... BJ said no such thing


NEXT !!
 

tommie

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 13, 2013
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Leo the Liar has lets the Mask slip!!

t5Mj0nHt.jpg

Varadkar admits backstop is a "trap" but happy for it to only apply to NI
Ireland’s Taoiseach Leo Varadkar lets it slip that the infamous Irish backstop is a “trap”.

Speaking after a Cabinet meeting in Dublin, he told reporters:

“We were and remain happy to apply the backstop only to Northern Ireland, if they want to go back to that. It doesn’t have to trap or keep all of the Great Britain in the customs territory, at all, or for a long period. That is up to them.”


Rather revealing language by the Irish leader, who just two months ago told reporters: “We don’t want to trap the UK into anything.”

Well, which is it Leo?
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
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Southend on Sea
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Ahh...so it really was the N.I. Border.. he was referring to....Hmmmm

which was entirely different to your previous assertion of `BJ would` -> “As the Prime Minister has said, ‘no United Kingdom Prime Minister’ could sign up to an arrangement which annexes Northern Ireland from the rest of the United Kingdom.

bottom line here is ... BJ said no such thing


NEXT !!
you got a little confused. The important point is to keep NI in the UK's single market and customs territory. The slightly less important point is to protect trade between NI and the ROI.
The best outcome is for the UK to remain in the EU customs union. Exports from NI to ROI will not have to pay EU's duty and suffer additional EU checks.
This needs to be clearly understood.
A hard brexit will create barriers, in the short term between NI and the ROI, on the long term in the Irish Sea when Prime Minister member of the ERG will do a deal with the EU after the UK has left the CU. That deal cannot be as good compared to a soft brexit. The ERG will sell NI down the river to protect its deal with the USA.
 
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Danidl

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It`s the DUP way or the Highway....:p.. get used to it...Tic-Toc...Tic-Toc..

DUP: EU proposal 'not sensible or realistic'

The DUP’s Westminster Leader, Nigel Dodds, has savaged the European Union’s latest intervention. It is looking increasingly unlikely that Theresa May will get her unchanged deal through Parliament.

Responding to the EU’s Chief Negotiator, Michel Barnier, Dodds said: “Nothing new in what Barnier is offering. This is a retreat back to the proposal of an Northern Ireland only backstop previously rejected by all sides in the House of Commons.”

And in a statement Dodds was even more emphatic, insisting: “This is neither a realistic nor sensible proposal from Michel Barnier. It disrespects the constitutional and economic integrity of the United Kingdom. This is an attempt to get ahead of a possible blame game and appear positive when in reality it is going backwards to something rejected a year ago.


“As the Prime Minister has said, ‘no United Kingdom Prime Minister’ could sign up to an arrangement which annexes Northern Ireland from the rest of the United Kingdom.

“Whilst the European Union has spoken often about their value of the peace process in Northern Ireland, this proposal demonstrates that they have a one-sided approach and a lack of understanding about the divisions in Northern Ireland. Just as nationalists and republicans oppose a new north-south border, unionists oppose any new east-west border which would place a new barrier between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom.


“We need to work for a sensible deal which can work for everyone in Northern Ireland. It is possible but there must be less intransigence in Brussels.”

The EU still don’t think the UK will leave with No Deal, meaning they have little incentive to shift. When will the British government reiterate to Brussels that No Deal is still better than a bad deal?

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No Tommie it is 15 working days to crash out. Does Mr Dodds seem even more shrill to day?.
As Clint Eastwood would have said,. How lucky are you feeling today? .
If and when Mrs May accepts that a NI limited "backstop" can and will get her deal over the line, do you think that comments made a year ago will cut any ice?. She has already renaged on commitments made last December to the EU.
You see you are actually totally missing the point. If the unionists of NI ,want to prevent any east west border,then they must negotiate with the remainder of the UK,and keep them on side. Whereas us EU Unionists ,also have our rights. .
It is getting difficult to distinguish between all these different types of unionists. .. Would it be better if we referred to the UK and its fellow travellers in NI as secessionists?, it would be both accurate and less confusing.,and there are a lot more of us EU Unionists.
Finally our Leo has not lied.nor has any mask slipped. There is no trap. There need be no trap. We want no land border on the island of Ireland.,that is all.
 

Kudoscycles

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Apr 15, 2011
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Has anyone done a poll on MP’s keeping us in the customs union for all the U.K.?
Obviously the ERG head bangers,especially Liam Fox (P45 already written) would vote against and maybe a handful of Labour Leavers ,but there must be a massive majority for staying in the CU?
KudosDave
 
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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
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,but there must be a massive majority for staying in the CU?
yes, I reckon about 400-450 would be happy to keep the UK in the CU, at least in the short term, maybe up to 10 years.
You have most of Labour MPs + soft tory brexiters and remainers.
The only problem is most of the WTO brexiters are conservatives, CU will split the tories.
 
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oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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It`s the DUP way or the Highway....:p.. get used to it...Tic-Toc...Tic-Toc..

DUP: EU proposal 'not sensible or realistic'

The DUP’s Westminster Leader, Nigel Dodds, has savaged the European Union’s latest intervention. It is looking increasingly unlikely that Theresa May will get her unchanged deal through Parliament.

Responding to the EU’s Chief Negotiator, Michel Barnier, Dodds said: “Nothing new in what Barnier is offering. This is a retreat back to the proposal of an Northern Ireland only backstop previously rejected by all sides in the House of Commons.”

And in a statement Dodds was even more emphatic, insisting: “This is neither a realistic nor sensible proposal from Michel Barnier. It disrespects the constitutional and economic integrity of the United Kingdom. This is an attempt to get ahead of a possible blame game and appear positive when in reality it is going backwards to something rejected a year ago.


“As the Prime Minister has said, ‘no United Kingdom Prime Minister’ could sign up to an arrangement which annexes Northern Ireland from the rest of the United Kingdom.

“Whilst the European Union has spoken often about their value of the peace process in Northern Ireland, this proposal demonstrates that they have a one-sided approach and a lack of understanding about the divisions in Northern Ireland. Just as nationalists and republicans oppose a new north-south border, unionists oppose any new east-west border which would place a new barrier between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom.


“We need to work for a sensible deal which can work for everyone in Northern Ireland. It is possible but there must be less intransigence in Brussels.”

The EU still don’t think the UK will leave with No Deal, meaning they have little incentive to shift. When will the British government reiterate to Brussels that No Deal is still better than a bad deal?

View attachment 29404
Hasn't the penny dropped yet Tommie? the DUP are in no position to influence what happens , that time is long overdue , and clowning around as you are doing won't change matters.
No Deal is a dead as their influence is.
They don't even represent the majority in Northern Ireland to they?
 

Danidl

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So will that the outcome be.? The British State admitted responsibility for the child of that ISIS wife. They then in no way vindicate its rights and do not bring it back to the UK. The child dies because of poor medical care. . They cannot claim there was any difficulty in taking this child to England..
In addition the decision to strip citizen ship from the mother is also,in English law, illegal.
That is the type of behaviour which in a democracy would have the minister answering embarrassing questions.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,317
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whose money supports 'clean' brexit?
These people outspend the rest of political advertisers put together.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexspence/mysterious-facebook-brexit-group-britains-future-tim-dawson

QUOTE:

Unlike other campaign groups, Britain’s Future doesn’t appear to have a corporate structure behind it. It does not seem to have a board governing it. There’s no record of an associated company at Companies House. It doesn’t seem to be registered with the Electoral Commission or the Information Commissioner. There is no known physical address. It’s not clear whether it has any staff.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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The child dies because of poor medical care.
We don't know that with any degree of certainty.

What we do know is that this is the third child she's given birth to which has died. Since numerous others babies have been born in similar conditions there and are healthy, a pattern has emerged which needs to be examined before pronouncing any cause of death.
.
 
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Danidl

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We don't know that with any degree of certainty.

What we do know is that this is the third child she's given birth to which has died. Since numerous others babies have been born in similar conditions there and are healthy, a pattern has emerged which needs to be examined before pronouncing any cause of death.
.
Pneumonia is the reported cause of death.
 

Danidl

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If this woman hadn`t have swanned off to become a member of some foreign Death cult she could happily have had a family safe and sound back in Bethnal Green.
Indeed,but that does not alter the fact that the UK Ministry accepted responsibility and then did nothing. The illegal matter of removing citizenship is still outstanding. Like I continue to say, these are what in a democratic society would be questions that would be asked if the relevant minister. I have seen ministers resign for less .
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
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Pneumonia is the reported cause of death.
Yes I saw that. Pneumonia usually results from poor conditions causing it. But many other babies born and being reared there have no problems, while she has lost three in a row.

In that circumstance an assumption of the cause of pneumonia is premature to say the least. Any woman losing three babies in quick succession here would be subject to highly detailed examination before any cause was concluded.
.
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
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Yes I saw that. Pneumonia usually results from poor conditions causing it. But many other babies born and being reared there have no problems, while she has lost three in a row.

In that circumstance an assumption of the cause of pneumonia is premature to say the least. Any woman losing three babies in quick succession here would be subject to highly detailed examination before any cause was concluded.
.
That would be true, but there was plenty of time to have brought that child back to a First World UK hospital, in the time between this story was first reported and yesterday. No this is a neglect story fully attributable to UK Departmental behaviour.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
No this is a neglect story fully attributable to UK Departmental behaviour.
I can't agree, many people, including babies, die of pneumonia here despite all our facilities. Overall, pneumonia is the sixth biggest cause of death in the UK. ... deaths mainly occurring in older people and children & babies under 10 years.

It cannot be assumed that our not bringing the baby back was neglect causing death and it's quite wrong to attribute blame here, given all the circumstances.
.
 

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