Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

Opinium Research found that half (50%) of UK adults think there is a need for a new centre-ground political party in Britain, including three quarters (75%) of 2017 Liberal Democrats and over half (51%) of Labour voters.

https://www.opinium.co.uk/appetite-for-new-party/

TIG claims that 40% say they are likely to vote for it. A bit bold methinks.

 

[Fingers]

Opinium Research found that half (50%) of UK adults think there is a need for a new centre-ground political party in Britain, including three quarters (75%) of 2017 Liberal Democrats and over half (51%) of Labour voters.

https://www.opinium.co.uk/appetite-for-new-party/

TIG claims that 40% say they are likely to vote for it. A bit bold methinks.

Chuka the bland. Soubry the vile. Smith the palsy.

Yeah. That’s the way forward.

 

[Woosh]

Chuka the bland. Soubry the vile. Smith the palsy.

Yeah. That’s the way forward.

I actually believe that's the way forward, moving toward coalition governments in the future, like Germany.
It's kinda funny when you think about after brexit Britain, we'll be more European than before.
There was this interview on CH4 News this morning, one guy who voted for brexit explained to the camera that he voted out to stop muslims coming into this country. When the journalist repeated the question, he tried to explain his logic, that he had nothing against Europeans coming here to work, he just did not want muslim immigrants.

 

[Danidl]

Chuka the bland. Soubry the vile. Smith the palsy.

Yeah. That’s the way forward.

Can you contribute anything beyond snide comments?

 

[Fingers]

I actually believe that's the way forward, moving toward coalition governments in the future, like Germany.
It's kinda funny when you think about after brexit Britain, we'll be more European than before.
There was this interview on CH4 News this morning, one guy who voted for brexit explained to the camera that he voted out to stop muslims coming into this country. When the journalist repeated the question, he tried to explain his logic, that he had nothing against Europeans coming here to work, he just did not want muslim immigrants.

Impossible until we get PRP

 

[Fingers]

Can you contribute anything beyond snide comments?

Please keep on topic.

Your constant attacks on me and other posters are becoming more and more prevalent.

There are rules against Internet bullying. I won't hesitate to use them.

Thank you.

 

[flecc]

Opinium Research found that half (50%) of UK adults think there is a need for a new centre-ground political party in Britain, including three quarters (75%) of 2017 Liberal Democrats and over half (51%) of Labour voters.

https://www.opinium.co.uk/appetite-for-new-party/

TIG claims that 40% say they are likely to vote for it. A bit bold methinks.

Definitely optimistic. We've got the centre-ground LibDems and the people don't vote for them. Nor did they for the former Liberals, the SDP or the SDLP. And after they'd eventually elected one without realising it, Blair's New Labour centre-right, they threw them out once they'd woke up to the fact and swung that party to the left.

It's all hot air, people say they want a centre party but then never support them. The only way we'll ever get centre-ground politics is if we ever adopt proportional representation.

N.B. Crossed with Fingers PRP post.
.

 

[flecc]

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/nov/09/mystic-mogg-jacob-rees-mogg-willam-predicts-brexit-plans

In the spring of 1997, shortly before Tony Blair took power, William Rees-Mogg, ex-editor of the Times, leading Eurosceptic, pinstriped self-publicist and father of Jacob, published a book that claimed to see the future of the world. The Sovereign Individual: The Coming Economic Revolution and How to Survive and Prosper in It opened with a quote from Tom Stoppard’s play Arcadia: “The future is disorder.”

For 380 breathless pages, Lord Rees-Mogg and a co-author, James Dale Davidson, an American investment guru and conservative propagandist, predicted that digital technology would make the world hugely more competitive, unequal and unstable. Societies would splinter. Taxes would be evaded. Government would gradually wither away. “By 2010 or thereabouts,” they wrote, welfare states “will simply become unfinanceable”. In such a harsh world, only the most talented, self-reliant, technologically adept person – “the sovereign individual” – would thrive.

There's two major flaws in this book. The first is that disruption prevents the money makers achieving their ends. Their earnings depend heavily on highly organised, time accurate, dependable systems of crop growing, mining earth resources, manufacturing and logistics. The current Brexit fears illustrate this only too well.

The second flaw is what happened to the French elite, the Russian Nobility, Mussolini, Nicolae and Elena Ceaușescu and a few others of their ilk. The people's patience has easily reached limits. The harsh sentences dished out after the various riots of the last 40 years were not governments showing strength, they were governments showing fear.
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[Woosh]

Definitely optimistic. We've got the centre-ground LibDems and the people don't vote for them. Nor did they for the former Liberals, the SDP or the SDLP. And after they'd eventually elected one without realising it, Blair's New Labour centre-right, they threw them out once they'd woken up to the fact and swung that party to the left.

It's all hot air, people say they want a centre party but then never support them. The only way we'll ever get centre-ground politics is if we ever adopt proportional representation.

N.B. Crossed with Fingers PRP post.
.

I think they know the problem that faces the LibDems and are looking for a different approach.
If they keep their political objectives fairly fuzzy, they'll get a lot of votes on a single issue like brexit, similar to the way UKIP operates.

 

[flecc]

I think they know the problem that faces the LibDems and are looking for a different approach.
If they keep their political objectives fairly fuzzy, they'll get a lot of votes on a single issue like brexit, similar to the way UKIP operates.

True, but very short term, as UKIP's collapse shows. The former SDP and SDLP disappeared quickly in the same way.

Until we get proportional representation I think we are stuck with a choice of left or right where electability to government is concerned.
.

 

[Fingers]

I think they know the problem that faces the LibDems and are looking for a different approach.
If they keep their political objectives fairly fuzzy, they'll get a lot of votes on a single issue like brexit, similar to the way UKIP operates.

I think the lib dems are finished as a serious political party. People are too polarised these days.

 

[Nev]

I mentioned Chris Williamson in a post on here the other day (by mistake I called him Chris Wilkinson). I said I found him a very scary individual who I would not like to see in any kind of position of power. He has recently been videoed giving his true thoughts on anti-Semitism. I think it will be interesting to see what happens to him over this.

 

[Woosh]

I think the lib dems are finished as a serious political party. People are too polarised these days.

Perhaps Chuka can replace Vince Cable.

 

[Fingers]

I mentioned Chris Williamson in a post on here the other day (by mistake I called him Chris Wilkinson). I said I found him a very scary individual who I would not like to see in any kind of position of power. He has recently been videoed giving his true thoughts on anti-Semitism. I think it will be interesting to see what happens to him over this.

Watson has said he would strip him of the whip. Oooer.

But let's consider what he said. I don't think it's too outrageous.

Not liking Israel or its racist and un breaking atrocities is different to being anti semitic. Labour is not a racist party and this constant narrative must be draining to someone who has campaigned all his life against racism.

We know its the tory faithful who are the real racists.

 

[Fingers]

Perhaps Chuka can replace Vince Cable.

He and his weird little gang have begged cable to join him. Literally begged.

How can Soubry in any way shape or form be classed as a lib dem? How can any paid up tory be that?

Chuka is also more tory than lib dem but I can see him moving over. If only to use them to try and win his seat.

He won't win though. His political career is over. He will be a talking head on TV that slowly becomes less and less relevant once he isn't an MP. His shtick is so 1990s

 

[Woosh]

He and his weird little gang have begged cable to join him. Literally begged.

How can Soubry in any way shape or form be classed as a lib dem? How can any paid up tory be that?

Chuka is also more tory than lib dem but I can see him moving over. If only to use them to try and win his seat.

He won't win though. His political career is over. He will be a talking head on TV that slowly becomes less and less relevant once he isn't an MP. His shtick is so 1990s

we'll know by tonight how TIG fits into current Westminster configuration.
Current stats: no deal brexit is most likely, TM's deal next. However, things can be changed very quickly if the HoC rules out no deal.
The Pound has done well in the last few days against the USD.

 

[flecc]

Watson has said he would strip him of the whip. Oooer.

But let's consider what he said. I don't think it's too outrageous.

Not liking Israel or its racist and un breaking atrocities is different to being anti semitic. Labour is not a racist party and this constant narrative must be draining to someone who has campaigned all his life against racism.

We know its the tory faithful who are the real racists.

Totally agree, this whole episode of accusing the Labour party of anti-semitism is contrived nonsense. It all arose from Labour rightly objecting to the full form of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of anti-semitism which is plainly wrong, since it seeks to prevent criticism of Israel as well.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Please keep on topic.

Your constant attacks on me and other posters are becoming more and more prevalent.

There are rules against Internet bullying. I won't hesitate to use them.

Thank you.

Go on then, do so

 

[Danidl]

Please keep on topic.

Your constant attacks on me and other posters are becoming more and more prevalent.

There are rules against Internet bullying. I won't hesitate to use them.

Thank you.

Playing the victim card now,it suits you.

 

[Woosh]

Totally agree, this whole episode of accusing the Labour party of anti-semitism is contrived nonsense. It all arose from Labour rightly objecting to the full form of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of anti-semitism which is plainly wrong, since it seeks to prevent criticism of Israel as well.
.

Labour's membership include a lot of pro-palestinian activists - a great deal more than the conservative party.
If you add to that important numerical presence a leader who is also pro-palestinian, the synergy makes policing anti-semitism doubly difficult.