Brexit, for once some facts.

[Danidl]

Yes, I didn't miss that, but surely he should have known that his words would create anger rather than any constructive reaction.
Those who directed Leave aren't in a position to solve the current problem, so all Tusk did was vent his personal feelings with no possibility that it would do anything but annoy.
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We could disagree on this. If someone is not listening to reason and diplomacy, when they conjugate every sentence and extract meanings from them not intended, then maybe ,just maybe , plain talking will break the complacency barrier. The audience was not the diehard Brexiteers, but to give encouragement to the closet MPs who in the event of a free vote may well accept the WA.
Remember it is fully 2 months since the EU said that the WA was done and would not be revisited. How many of Westminster MPs choose to remember that last week?.
I don't think it was an angry outburst, I think it was a considered last ditch attempt.

 

[OxygenJames]

Beyond a certain point, a rational person realises that the other person is not rational.

Danny Danny Danny. Again. Let me repeat you don't seem to get it. People do not vote or buy or decide almost anything based on 'rationale' alone.

That's not how humans work. You'd probably prefer it if they did - for then you might think you stand a chance of proving that your version of 'rational' is the right one. Good luck with that.

Like I say - ET call home

 

[OxygenJames]

Well one of us is not living on planet earth.

Says the guy who doesn't realise the EU is desperately trying to punish us for having the audacity to say we want out.

 

[50Hertz]

I can't imagine what he was trying to achieve, trying to shock or looking for sympathy. He does seem to be taking Brexit far more personally than the other EU politicians, looking hurt at times.

He obviously has a strong belief in the EU concept.
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I can’t see what’s wrong with Tusk’s remarks. He’s just calling out UK politicians for the clueless clowns that they are. Unlike statements form our own politicians, Tusk’s statement was truthful. You never need to apologise for telling the truth.

 

[Woosh]

I don't think it was an angry outburst, I think it was a considered last ditch attempt.

Says the guy who doesn't realise the EU is desperately trying to punish us for having the audacity to say we want out.

I can’t see what’s wrong with Tusk’s remarks. He’s just calling out UK politicians for the clueless clowns that they are. Unlike statements form our own politicians, Tusk’s statement was truthful. You never need to apologise for telling the truth.

I agree with 50Hertz. His joke backfires because (almost) nobody laughs but there is a ring of truth.
Politicians are paid to do a job with huge responsibility. Even if they can't see into the future, they should still be able to plan ahead and guide us to safety and prosperity.
Tusk has always held that brexit is a lose-lose event, he tries hard with moderate brexiters to reduce the losses.
Tusk attacked those who do not take responsibility for the no deal brexit if that is where we are going.
Hard brexiters see it as zero sum game, they (EU) win, we lose, so turn the table onto the EU and Tusk. Who is more right?

 

[OxygenJames]

Brendan O'Neil's take on Tusk:

"It’s useful to be reminded every now and then just how much the Brussels oligarchy hates us. So let’s be grateful to Donald Tusk, president of the European Council, for his slipped-mask comment today. He effectively condemned to hell the 17.4million Britons who voted for Brexit. In a press conference with Irish Taoiseach Leo Varadkar, who chortled along, naturally, Tusk wondered out loud what ‘special place in hell’ there will be for those who ‘those who promoted Brexit without even a sketch of a plan of how to carry it out safely’.

The diplomatic facade fell and here we had Eurocrat elitism in all its rawness and nastiness: they really do view those who dissent from their illiberal, undemocratic writ as evil beings, sinners, disrupters of decency, destined for the furthest reaches of hell itself.

Some anti-Brexit campaigners – finally feeling a twinge of embarrassment over this foul bureaucracy they’ve devoted their lives to defending – insist that Tusk was talking about Leave leaders, not Leave voters. His target wasn’t the former factory-worker in Stoke or the hairdresser in Essex who marked Leave on their ballot paper – it was Jacob Rees-Mogg and BoJo and the other poshos who ‘promoted’ Leave without thinking through its consequences. In short, he was ‘punching up’ rather than punching down.

Do me a favour. Punching down is what the EUdoes. It punched down at the Greek working class, punched down at the Italian electorate, punched down at Ireland by imposing economic colonisers to dictate its financial agenda, and now it is punching down at ordinary Brits who engaged in the ultimate ‘promotion’ of Brexit by actually voting for it in June 2016.

Tusk has form when it comes to steaming contempt for the electoral masses. He described our holding of a referendum in the first place as ‘so dangerous, so stupid’. Why would someone view a massive free and fair vote as dangerous and stupid? Because they view the voters as dangerous and stupid, as liable to give the ‘wrong’ answer. Which we did! He has also denounced Britain’s Brexit plans as ‘pure illusion’.

Then there is Guy Verhofstadt, Brexit coordinator for the European Parliament, who recently ranted about the failure of European states to hand over more sovereignty to Brussels. And who can forget Jean-Claude Juncker, the sobriety-challenged head of the European Commission, who has boasted about being ‘insufficiently democratic’, about sometimes ‘hav[ing] to lie’, and why it would not be ‘intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion’ to the fact that the EU demands greater and greater transfers of sovereignty from nation states.

This is the EU. Tusk’s comment wasn’t actually slippage or a mistake or even a stunt designed to grab headlines – it was a true and faithful expression of the Brussels oligarchy’s contempt for the people and for public opinion.

One of the most startling things in the video of Tusk’s elitist punching down at the British masses is when Varadkar turns to him and says, ‘They’ll give you terrible trouble in the British press for that’. They both then laugh and shake hands. Behold the new aristocracy, contemptuous of ordinary people, disdainful of democracy, hateful towards the critical press, and far more in favour of secrecy, bureaucracy and lies than openness and public debate.

They really would like to see dissenting voters, including the millions who voted for Brexit, in hell. Instead, let’s give them hell."

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/02/06/go-to-hell-donald-tusk/

 

[oldgroaner]

he's probably a bit annoyed because the EU have not been able to overturn the decision to leave. They're used to getting their own way

That is becoming a bit of a boring trope to come out with, who is going to fall for that?
Please stop using this nonsense, it is simply misrepresenting the truth
Typical of all leave campaign propaganda.

Where referendums have been overturned in the past it has been because the EU rewrote the treaties involved to make them acceptable, and so they were passed when offered again to the public.
Are you against coming to a compromise that suits everyone on principle?
They didn't overturn the decisions, the voters who had that opportunity saw that they had achieved what they wanted and voted again overturning it.

Actually that criticism would be more accurately aimed at us, not them, they have made no effort whatsoever to overturn the decision to leave.
It shouldn't have come to that as the referendum result should have been declared null and void as illegally procured.
Even taking that wrong doing into account the result would have have been remain if the people who were expats, were legally entitled to vote and had the most to lose hadn't been excluded

 

[oyster]

Same as me Zlatan. Heated steering wheel great since I suffer from Raynauds syndrome, meaning my hands go dead with cold surface contact, but I can't see why heated seats are needed when a car is heated anyway.
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I used to start out on journeys at silly times, like 03:00, right the way through the winter. In cold weather, heated seats made the first miles very much more pleasant than they would otherwise have been.

In the past three years, we would almost never have used them even if we had them fitted, which we don't. The combination of better heater design, generally drier car interiors (suspect A/C helps), and simply not being so daft as to set out at such silly times probably makes the difference.

 

[oldgroaner]

Doesn't Tusk realise talking like that only hardens the view we have that the EU can go stick its head where the sun doesn't shine.

Do you think anyone over there really cares what your views are? I doubt all that many here are interested either, we regard the leave campaign as being a dangerous faction that has already caused more than enough trouble, and done it for very dubious reasons not in the public interest.

 

[oyster]

The Express have started the propaganda campaign just in case there is a GE
"
Fears of MASS STRIKES under a Corbyn government as McDonnell pledges trade union 'REVIVAL'
SHADOW Chancellor John McDonnell will today trigger fears of strike mayhem with a rallying cry for a surge in trade unionism if Labour wins the next General Election.

Forgetting that people actually have gained immensely over the years through the action of unions, and have the right even now to join them if they wish, despite years of right wing repression.
The Express not John Mc Donnell is in fact trying to trigger fear and as usual it will quite likely work as it usually does.

The pity is that though Unions have never damaged the wealth and well being of the people even a tiny fraction as much as Conservative Rule, this paper and others like it will never print that simple truth, they are after all simply handy propaganda organs not newspapers .
Owned by the Elite.

Ironic this should appear just after the Hermes/GMB agreement.

 

[oldgroaner]

Brendan O'Neil's take on Tusk:

"It’s useful to be reminded every now and then just how much the Brussels oligarchy hates us. So let’s be grateful to Donald Tusk, president of the European Council, for his slipped-mask comment today. He effectively condemned to hell the 17.4million Britons who voted for Brexit. In a press conference with Irish Taoiseach Leo Varadkar, who chortled along, naturally, Tusk wondered out loud what ‘special place in hell’ there will be for those who ‘those who promoted Brexit without even a sketch of a plan of how to carry it out safely’.

The diplomatic facade fell and here we had Eurocrat elitism in all its rawness and nastiness: they really do view those who dissent from their illiberal, undemocratic writ as evil beings, sinners, disrupters of decency, destined for the furthest reaches of hell itself.

Some anti-Brexit campaigners – finally feeling a twinge of embarrassment over this foul bureaucracy they’ve devoted their lives to defending – insist that Tusk was talking about Leave leaders, not Leave voters. His target wasn’t the former factory-worker in Stoke or the hairdresser in Essex who marked Leave on their ballot paper – it was Jacob Rees-Mogg and BoJo and the other poshos who ‘promoted’ Leave without thinking through its consequences. In short, he was ‘punching up’ rather than punching down.

Do me a favour. Punching down is what the EUdoes. It punched down at the Greek working class, punched down at the Italian electorate, punched down at Ireland by imposing economic colonisers to dictate its financial agenda, and now it is punching down at ordinary Brits who engaged in the ultimate ‘promotion’ of Brexit by actually voting for it in June 2016.

Tusk has form when it comes to steaming contempt for the electoral masses. He described our holding of a referendum in the first place as ‘so dangerous, so stupid’. Why would someone view a massive free and fair vote as dangerous and stupid? Because they view the voters as dangerous and stupid, as liable to give the ‘wrong’ answer. Which we did! He has also denounced Britain’s Brexit plans as ‘pure illusion’.

Then there is Guy Verhofstadt, Brexit coordinator for the European Parliament, who recently ranted about the failure of European states to hand over more sovereignty to Brussels. And who can forget Jean-Claude Juncker, the sobriety-challenged head of the European Commission, who has boasted about being ‘insufficiently democratic’, about sometimes ‘hav[ing] to lie’, and why it would not be ‘intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion’ to the fact that the EU demands greater and greater transfers of sovereignty from nation states.

This is the EU. Tusk’s comment wasn’t actually slippage or a mistake or even a stunt designed to grab headlines – it was a true and faithful expression of the Brussels oligarchy’s contempt for the people and for public opinion.

One of the most startling things in the video of Tusk’s elitist punching down at the British masses is when Varadkar turns to him and says, ‘They’ll give you terrible trouble in the British press for that’. They both then laugh and shake hands. Behold the new aristocracy, contemptuous of ordinary people, disdainful of democracy, hateful towards the critical press, and far more in favour of secrecy, bureaucracy and lies than openness and public debate.

They really would like to see dissenting voters, including the millions who voted for Brexit, in hell. Instead, let’s give them hell."

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/02/06/go-to-hell-donald-tusk/

Thanks for the Comedy as usual it has nothing to do with reality
Probably the funniest line was this
"Why would someone view a massive free and fair vote "
Would that be the one that excluded the many UK citizens who live in the EU and had the most reason to vote to remain?
And also
"Behold the new aristocracy, contemptuous of ordinary people, disdainful of democracy, hateful towards the critical press,"

What country are you referring to here? would it be the one where the press call the judiciary "Enemies of the People" and "Mp's traitors"?
And ignore completely the 48% who voted to remain?

Or Whose Government refuses to declare the referendum void because the result was poisoned by illegal actions,as it suits their agenda to leave it lie?

And how about the spin you used here?

Some anti-Brexit campaigners – finally feeling a twinge of embarrassment over this foul bureaucracy they’ve devoted their lives to defending – insist that Tusk was talking about Leave leaders, not Leave voters.
And what did he actually say?
Tusk wondered out loud what ‘special place in hell’ there will be for those who ‘those who promoted Brexit without even a sketch of a plan of how to carry it out safely’.
How could leave voters have been guilty of that? he never even mentioned them, that is entirely a fabrication from you.
For goodness sake stop trotting out such blatant distortion of what was said

And when we leave, we have the country being run by what, and for whom?
What is in it for people like you that push Brexit?

Look at the record of the Conservatives, let them near any business and they will sell it and make the service more expensive and less efficient, and you expect this shower to turn our future into something wonderful,because you dislike the EU?
Anyone who can't see this whole fiasco will end in tears, t clearly has no idea
of the seriousness of our situation.

Sorry but your work of fiction is just that, and needs a better plot line too

 

[flecc]

I can’t see what’s wrong with Tusk’s remarks. He’s just calling out UK politicians for the clueless clowns that they are. Unlike statements form our own politicians, Tusk’s statement was truthful. You never need to apologise for telling the truth.

I agree, what he said was completely true. The trouble was the way he expressed it with the place in hell comment.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Says the guy who doesn't realise the EU is desperately trying to punish us for having the audacity to say we want out.

Because it simply isn't, a loony fringe of Right wingers is doing that

 

[50Hertz]

I agree, what he said was completely true. The trouble was the way he expressed it with the place in hell comment.
.

There is a pathway to redemption through the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[flecc]

I used to start out on journeys at silly times, like 03:00, right the way through the winter. In cold weather, heated seats made the first miles very much more pleasant than they would otherwise have been.

In the past three years, we would almost never have used them even if we had them fitted, which we don't. The combination of better heater design, generally drier car interiors (suspect A/C helps), and simply not being so daft as to set out at such silly times probably makes the difference.

I suspect much of the reason I don't need to use the heated seats in mine is that , being an e-car, it heats up instantly. It would be different of I had to wait for a couple of miles or more for warmth.
.

 

[flecc]

There is a pathway to redemption through the Lord Jesus Christ.

Not in my world.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

There is a pathway to redemption through the Lord Jesus Christ.

No thank you very much

 

[oldgroaner]

The Humour continues
[B]Guy Verhofstadt[/B]‏Verified account @[B]guyverhofstadt[/B]
Guy Verhofstadt Retweeted Donald Tusk

Well, I doubt Lucifer would welcome them, as after what they did to Britain, they would even manage to divide hell

Oh Yesssss!

 

[oldgroaner]

The significant remark Tusk made was this

That is why come what may they will sign Mays deal in the end

 

[50Hertz]

Not in my world.
.