Brexit, for once some facts.

[Danidl]

We are highly respected around the world. Maybe the places you go are not frequented by with locals who have a love for us as they have to serve us and its their job. But ask someone more traveled like @Zlatan and I bet he will tell you that we are very well regarded abroad.

I've never had anything but respect apart from one time in Berlin when I got a bit lost in East Berlin and an old woman shouted at us from across the platform and spat at us. The locals we told were horrified.

There is probably more residual affection for the British than for the other colonial powers,but seriously that is a very low bar . The behaviour of the Belgians in the Congo, and the Germans in Africa , the Spanish in South America, and indeed the Dutch in South Africa does not show Christian Europe in any positive light. The French in SE Asia were marginally better.
But fingers do not equate a desire by poor economies for hard currency with loving or even liking or even having a positive regard. See the world as it is, not how you would want it to be.

 

[50Hertz]

Many people speak English ,of one form or another. They have their native language and they have English. So the English language is very popular. Rather than pick up what is another foreign language. Like Greek ot French or German. Or Dutch. I recall being on a campsite in France some two decades ago where a number of the children,including mine were playing together. There were German , Dutch, Irish and perhaps English, and of course they all spoke English.
These economic migrants ,They may also have those old biscuit tins with tower bridge and beefeaters. The only thing i do not believe is that they are going to the UK to be welfare cheats. They want a chance in life.

The original point made by Old Groaner was that the U.K. is unpopular. He is wrong, the U.K. is liked and is a popular place. If it wasn’t and had nothing to offer, people would not go there.

 

[50Hertz]

The inference is obvious, they prefer to keep us at arms length, nothing to do with coming here, has it?
It means we can only expect to be treated as outsiders, not favoured friends.

It has everything to do with coming here. If the U.K. was a hostile and unpleasant place to live, no one would come here. I don’t know what you are on about, keeping at arm’s length. You can’t get much more intimate than going to live in a country.

 

[Danidl]

Thank you,I must remember to tell the Doctor that the flu he diagnosed was just a cold.

..well for once Fingers has a point. The flu or a cold would not have responded to the antibiotic, whereas any coincident bacterial infection, symbiotic with the weakened state brought on by the virus will . Your medical doctor was treating the probability of that occuring rather than the certainty.. A wise practice with patients of advanced years. The only way he would be certain would be by growing cultures, which might help the autopsy.

So now the treatment is over, could i suggest getting one of those probiotic capsules to restock the gut and also a packet of digestive enzymes CREON or non pharmaceutical grade equivalent , to assist digestion while that is happening.

 

[Fingers]

Nice little dream and Zlatan has had a go at the natives more times than you've had hot dinners!
Travelling as a a privileged and cosseted westerner doesn't make you an expert on the lives of people in far away places, when you clearly know next to nothing about the lives of the poor in your own country.

It's true. Whether consciously or subconsciously I do tend to avoid the lower orders.

 

[flecc]

The fact remains then that the U.K. is popular and people want to come to the U.K. to live, to work or to use the soft touch welfare society.

As they do for Sweden and Germany, the latter being far more popular with immigrants than the UK.
.

 

[Fingers]

As they do for Sweden and Germany, the latter being far more popular with immigrants than the UK.
.

By popular you mean they invited them in?

 

[50Hertz]

As they do for Sweden and Germany, the latter being far more popular with immigrants than the UK.
.

Maybe, maybe not. The original point made by Old Groaner was that the U.K. is unpopular. It is not and the evidence of that can be seen in the determination shown by people to get into the U.K. Old Groaner is entirely wrong.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Maybe, maybe not. The original point made by Old Groaner was that the U.K. is unpopular. It is not and the evidence of that can be seen in the determination shown by people to get into the U.K. Old Groaner is entirely wrong.

It depended very much on the generation you belonged to when I was gowing up. It wasn't so much the UK but rather the English who were very much unloved. Being Scottish, Welsh or Irish got bonus points even and "How do you put up with them?" comments...

Just one persons experience from a certain period in time in a particular country.

 

[50Hertz]

It wasn't so much the UK but rather the English who were very much unloved. Being Scottish, Welsh or Irish got bonus points even and "How do you put up with them?" comments....

Joel Barnett came the enthusiastic reply. We love to accept their money.

 

[Zlatan]

Nice little dream and Zlatan has had a go at the natives more times than you've had hot dinners!
Travelling as a a privileged and cosseted westerner doesn't make you an expert on the lives of people in far away places, when you clearly know next to nothing about the lives of the poor in your own country.

As normal you complety change what has been said to back up your poor argument. I have never ever criticised any locals abywhere. Quite the reverse. I criticised the EU and local governments for the hindrance often shown to small businesses and their inability to help the people most needing it. EU cash injected into the regions I knew well (Northern Spain, South France and to a lesser extent Greece) always lines the pockets of already priviliged. I gave example of girls sat on white plastic chairs besides pristine roads, amidst recently renovated villages selling thenselves but having to wear hi viz vests under EU H&S regs. Thats the EU for you and typical you changing my comment into being anti local. Its actually the reverse.
And for what its worth I, ve never been anywhere where English/Brits are anything but well liked and popular. In India we are adored.
I have noticed a growing resentment in many places against Russians (Especially India and Canaries) and I found Catalans dispariging towards Germans (they still remember the war) and any French from Paris or further north.
To be fair all folk I, ve ever had dealings with take folk as they find them.Good and bad in all groups. As is always apparent on here.

 

[50Hertz]

As normal you complety change what has been said to back up your poor argument. I have never ever criticised any locals abywhere. Quite the reverse. I criticised the EU and local governments for the hindrance often shown to small businesses and their inability to help the people most needing it. EU cash injected into the regions I knew well (Northern Spain, South France and to a lesser extent Greece) always lines the pockets of already priviliged. I gave example of girls sat on white plastic chairs besides pristine roads, amidst recently renovated villages selling thenselves but having to wear hi viz vests under EU H&S regs. Thats the EU for you and typical you changing my comment into being anti local. Its actually the reverse.
And for what its worth I, ve never been anywhere where English/Brits are anything but well liked and popular. In India we are adored.
I have noticed a growing resentment in many places against Russians (Especially India and Canaries) and I found Catalans dispariging towards Germans (they still remember the war) and any French from Paris or further north.
To be fair all folk I, ve ever had dealings with take folk as they find them.Good and bad in all groups. As is always apparent on here.

I’m not hugely well traveled, but I have visited a reasonable selection of countries as a tourist, on business and for social reasons. I can’t say that I have perceived any hostility purely because I am a U.K. resident.

I don’t understand why people on here persistently make the point that the English / United Kingdom is some kind of global scourge disliked the world over with increasing levels of animosity. The U.K. is a country where people enjoy many freedoms, reasonable & free healthcare and many free social facilities. Why do people so readily run their country down at every turn? I can only think that they have failed to achieve something in life and rather than look to themselves for the answer why, they turn on their country and vent the frustration there via unfair criticism.

 

[Zlatan]

I’m not hugely well traveled, but I have visited a reasonable selection of countries as a tourist, on business and for social reasons. I can’t say that I have perceived any hostility purely because I am a U.K. resident.

I don’t understand why people on here persistently make the point that the English / United Kingdom is some kind of global scourge disliked the world over with increasing levels of animosity. The U.K. is a country where people enjoy many freedoms, reasonable & free healthcare and many free social facilities. Why do people so readily run their country down at every turn? I can only think that they have failed to achieve something in life and rather than look to themselves for the answer why, they turn on their country and vent the frustration there via unfair criticism.

Good post. Well said.

 

[oldgroaner]

It has everything to do with coming here. If the U.K. was a hostile and unpleasant place to live, no one would come here. I don’t know what you are on about, keeping at arm’s length. You can’t get much more intimate than going to live in a country.

You are mssing the point completely, what is at issue is whether we can get good trade deals with these countries not whether individual people wish to come here from there, and in fact in a lot of cases we are not getting peope from many of those countries, only countries where people are displaced by wars.
What has intimacy to do with heading for a place of relative safety? they would rather remain in their own countries than come here with all the disruption and danger involved.
In fact if you look up the residency and qualifications required for gaining access to the Welfare system here, you would find that most of those arriving are due for deportation and disappointment they did not expect.

Here's a link that gives a clearer picture
https://corporatewatch.org/deportation-charter-flights-updated-report-2018/
"
The Home Office says that its aim is to increase the number of voluntary, as opposed to enforced, returns. This is for cost reasons: it is much cheaper if people leave without a security escort. And indeed there was a marked increase in “voluntary” deportations in the early years of this policy shift. Only 3,566 people left “voluntarily” back in 2004, but the number rose every year from then to reach 32,178 in 2013. However, it has been declining since that.
The official rationale of Theresa May’s “hostile environment” approach is precisely to push people to leave “voluntarily” by making life unliveable in the UK. The official figures do not show this working. “Voluntary return” numbers were falling just as the keystones of the hostile environment, the 2014 and 2016 Immigration Acts, were introduced.
Who is deported?
One obvious shift in the last few years is the increased deportation of Europeans, including EU and other European Economic Area (EEA) nationals. In 2017, 6,931 European nationals were deported by force from the UK, 57% of the total. 41% of all forced deportees were EU citizens.
In both 2016 and 2017, the three main nationalities targeted for deportation were all Eastern European: Romania, Albania, and Poland. 1,715 Romanians were deported in 2017, 1,599 Albanians, and 1,213 Poles.

This is not the Welcoming country you imagine it to be

 

[Woosh]

Why do people so readily run their country down at every turn? I can only think that they have failed to achieve something in life and rather than look to themselves for the answer why, they turn on their country and vent the frustration there via unfair criticism.

I don't see any unfair criticism against the UK. As you said, the UK is a nice place to live, with attractive public service provisions. But so are and do many other countries in the EU. That's why more than a million UK citizens live there.
I was out dining with a few old friends yesterday in Paris. We of course talked a little bit about Europe (which is in context pretty much the EU and Eurozone countries). Somehow the conversation turned to migration and exploitation of the very high social safety net that Europe offers to its citizens and extended to immigrants with the obligatory consequence that a lot of migrants feel no shame in taking advantage of. Believe me, a lot more people want to go to Sweden, Germany, the Netherlands and France than to the UK.
France has had its share of problems and advantage taking by its 2 million French born in Maghreb (Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia and Libya). A lot of them collect the benefits and return to live in Maghreb 6 months a year. Another problem with the French healthcare system is that when you are a refugee, you are 100% covered for all your healthcare cost, same if you have a chronic condition. Refugees from Africa come often with very expensive existing conditions: aids, tuberculosis, hepatitis, drug addiction. On top of that, good medication costs a lot of money in Africa, there is a huge issue of migrants taking prescriptions for the whole year back to their former home to sell, the scandal costs the French state a small fortune.

 

[oldgroaner]

I’m not hugely well traveled, but I have visited a reasonable selection of countries as a tourist, on business and for social reasons. I can’t say that I have perceived any hostility purely because I am a U.K. resident.

I don’t understand why people on here persistently make the point that the English / United Kingdom is some kind of global scourge disliked the world over with increasing levels of animosity. The U.K. is a country where people enjoy many freedoms, reasonable & free healthcare and many free social facilities. Why do people so readily run their country down at every turn? I can only think that they have failed to achieve something in life and rather than look to themselves for the answer why, they turn on their country and vent the frustration there via unfair criticism.

The so called may freedoms were not free, all of them were fought for and are continually under threat.and healthcare isn't free, you pay for it through taxation, and if the Tory party has it's way that will go the way of the world.
It isn't a case of running the country down, and coming out with corny lines that the right wing press have fed you
"I can only think that they have failed to achieve something in life and rather than look to themselves for the answer why, they turn on their country and vent the frustration there via unfair criticism."
No, it is not a result of any failure on the part of people who criticise the visible destruction being wrought right before your eyes because you don't want to accept the evidence of the damage being done to the NHS and and infrastructure.
You need to wake up from this complacent dream you have fallen for
The country is not being subject to unfair criticism, it is the saboteurs who are busily wrecking it are the ones being attacked, and by being complacent you are aiding and abetting the damage being done.
After Brexit you will see just how much damage they will do through malice greed and incompetence, and frankly if you imagine all will be well, you are in for a a severe disappointment.
The country itself is one of the greatest in the world, but it has an utterly corrupt political system.
And being the world's third largest seller of Arms to Regimes with dreadful Human rights records has lost us a lot of friends abroad.

 

[oldgroaner]

Good post. Well said.

Rather misguided and rose tinted view however

 

[oldgroaner]

As normal you complety change what has been said to back up your poor argument. I have never ever criticised any locals abywhere. Quite the reverse. I criticised the EU and local governments for the hindrance often shown to small businesses and their inability to help the people most needing it. EU cash injected into the regions I knew well (Northern Spain, South France and to a lesser extent Greece) always lines the pockets of already priviliged. I gave example of girls sat on white plastic chairs besides pristine roads, amidst recently renovated villages selling thenselves but having to wear hi viz vests under EU H&S regs. Thats the EU for you and typical you changing my comment into being anti local. Its actually the reverse.
And for what its worth I, ve never been anywhere where English/Brits are anything but well liked and popular. In India we are adored.
I have noticed a growing resentment in many places against Russians (Especially India and Canaries) and I found Catalans dispariging towards Germans (they still remember the war) and any French from Paris or further north.
To be fair all folk I, ve ever had dealings with take folk as they find them.Good and bad in all groups. As is always apparent on here.

Circular argument again?

 

[oldgroaner]

Maybe, maybe not. The original point made by Old Groaner was that the U.K. is unpopular. It is not and the evidence of that can be seen in the determination shown by people to get into the U.K. Old Groaner is entirely wrong.

Sorry but you have clearly not understood the point I was making at all, have you?
My point was nothing whatever to do with individuals wishing to some here, but the policies of nations towards trading with us.
That should have been obvious, but obviously you deliberately misunderstood.
Try actually reading my posts
#43,305

Nowhere in that post do I mention the popularity of this country as a destination for migrants, you have fabricated an argument out of your own imagination for some strange reason.
This is my actual post
"
Something for the Brexiteers to consider when they imagine we are popular in the world
I have news for you... we aren't!
Here's a map of countries that have gained independence from the UK

And how many have come back?
NONE
And before too long the map will change again when Scotland and Northern Ireland go.

The most likely reason is this
"The English were either thrown out - or asked to leave. Mainly to do with theirinterpretation of democracy and control. "We believe in democracy once we are more equal than everyone else, and we get the final say on everything.
And walk off with the national assets"

Can you dispute any of that?
Are you for instance disputing that we behaved as we did when we were running those countries and therefore they should feel gratitude towards us?

If they did why did they want to get rid of us?
Where do you think the money came from to make us a Super power?

 

[Zlatan]

Sorry but you have clearly not understood the point I was making at all, have you?
My point was nothing whatever to do with individuals wishing to some here, but the policies of nations towards trading with us.
That should have been obvious, but obviously you deliberately misunderstood.
Try actually reading my posts
#43,305

Nowhere in that post do I mention the popularity of this country as a destination for migrants, you have fabricated an argument out of your own imagination for some strange reason.
This is my actual post
"
Something for the Brexiteers to consider when they imagine we are popular in the world
I have news for you... we aren't!
Here's a map of countries that have gained independence from the UK

And how many have come back?
NONE
And before too long the map will change again when Scotland and Northern Ireland go.

The most likely reason is this
"The English were either thrown out - or asked to leave. Mainly to do with theirinterpretation of democracy and control. "We believe in democracy once we are more equal than everyone else, and we get the final say on everything.
And walk off with the national assets"

Can you dispute any of that?
Are you for instance disputing that we behaved as we did when we were running those countries and therefore they should feel gratitude towards us?

If they did why did they want to get rid of us?
Where do you think the money came from to make us a Super power?

That is the most boring post you, ve ever made OG. Give it a rest , have a beer, put football on and cheer up for gawds sake.