Brexit, for once some facts.

trex

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May 15, 2011
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I watched Nigel Farage on TV last night sharing a platform with Donald Trump.
Farage was without his new moustache.
I did try very hard not to link the two together.
 
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I agree the Brexit result has caused a significant drop in the value of the pound.

But that may have happened at any time - we've had various devaluations/currency crises in my memory - so the possibility of a big drop is not hypothetical.

What your situation demonstrates is the risk of running a business which is heavily dependent on a single factor - the exchange rate - which you cannot control.

As you know, business is all about risk, so I'm not criticising you, quite the reverse, you should be congratulated for taking the risk in the first place and managing it.

It's often said the country needs more engineers, we also need more entrepreneurs - risk takers.
I appreciate the compliment in there.

But I would highlight, that we're not "heavily dependent on a single factor" there are lots of things that can impact on any business, the cost price of the supply chain going up is just one, and this can be effected by any number of things, the exchange rate is just one of the risks.

Also, pretty much every business and every individual will be impacted by a change in exchange rate - so we're all risk takers its just that some don't realise it.
 
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oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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What a load of long-winded waffly nonsense.

Bored? I'm surprised you managed to stay awake while churning out that post.

English is the most spoken and influential language in the world.

It's that simple.

Or it is to anyone who applies even a modicum of clear thinking.

And do you honestly think referring to Sturgeon as 'a dreadful Scottish woman' is a racist remark?

Yet more muddled thinking on your part, although you are not alone in that.

Make mention of race or nationality in any context these days and someone will bellow 'racist' at you.

Just as my simple observation of the prevalence of the English language has led to your ridiculous allegations of racism and xenophobia.

There is no connection, much as you are trying to make it.

I'll try one more time, I have no influence on the English language, what I think about any political or social question is irrelevant.

If I am all those nasty things you say I am, or if I am none of them, makes no difference.

English still rules the linguistic world.
And you are off topic
 

tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
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Well done tillson another classic along the tried and tested
"If I shout louder they will try to understand!"
Always works, Guaranteed , Very British!o_O
I am always delighted to share my tips for the international traveler.

Any dissent or non-compliance shown by the locals can be quickly crushed by saying in a loud voice, "for-you (point directly at the subject) I-send-Lancaster bomber."

Another good ice-breaker around any hotel pool is to perform a tuck-dive, preferably from a spring board, and upon resurfacing announce to those caught by the splashing, "that's the one which won the war."
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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Daily Express this morning
"
European Union migrants will be made to apply for work permit under new proposals
THOUSANDS of migrants trying to get into Britain may have to obtain a specialist work permit, making it easy for authorities to track them when they arrive."
Sounds Fair enough, but raises the following questions

  1. Since a passport has to be shown, why is there no database kept of entries and exits anyway?
  2. What will be gained from the enormous expense of another Government Department that will be needed and the cost of a database that was rejected as too costly that would have tracked the passport entries and exits?
  3. If we lack the means to track them now is the cost justified (when already rejected as too expensive?)
With so much else clamouring for attention, Mrs May has already stated that the goal of reducing immigration is at least four years away.
The obvious conclusion is that this will not happen in the near future if at all.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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I am always delighted to share my tips for the international traveler.

Any dissent or non-compliance shown by the locals can be quickly crushed by saying in a loud voice, "for-you (point directly at the subject) I-send-Lancaster bomber."

Another good ice-breaker around any hotel pool is to perform a tuck-dive, preferably from a spring board, and upon resurfacing announce to those caught by the splashing, "that's the one which won the war."
Barnes Wallace would be proud, I'm sure , perhaps this technique could bear his name in homage?
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
It will be patently obvious to anyone reading through this thread, (not that I imagine anyone would!), that in the absence of any evidence to support an economic case for leaving the EU, there must be some other reason.

As there is no no cultural advantage in leaving, no strategic or military advantage, no trade or employment benefit, then it has to be something else.

I said a long, long time ago that 'Brexit' was motivated primarily by racism and the arrogance and stupidity of a misguided section of the British public stirred up by fascist politicians who lied through their teeth to the public, ably supported by the right-wing media.

Recent contributions to the thread have only reinforced my view. It matters little though as, increasingly, the likelihood of the UK ever exiting the EU diminishes with every passing day, if any of the major news organs are to be believed. The appetite for 'Brexit' no longer appeals to large numbers of those who voted to leave which reduces that camp to a hardcore of unlikely bedfellows comprised of racists, rent-a-mob anarchists and fascists.

Tom
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
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two months on and still no brexit plan.
should brexit be postponed until there is a pro-brexit government and parliament?
I should think so (it may be a long wait).
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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It will be patently obvious to anyone reading through this thread, (not that I imagine anyone would!), that in the absence of any evidence to support an economic case for leaving the EU, there must be some other reason.

As there is no no cultural advantage in leaving, no strategic or military advantage, no trade or employment benefit, then it has to be something else.

I said a long, long time ago that 'Brexit' was motivated primarily by racism and the arrogance and stupidity of a misguided section of the British public stirred up by fascist politicians who lied through their teeth to the public, ably supported by the right-wing media.

Recent contributions to the thread have only reinforced my view. It matters little though as, increasingly, the likelihood of the UK ever exiting the EU diminishes with every passing day, if any of the major news organs are to be believed. The appetite for 'Brexit' no longer appeals to large numbers of those who voted to leave which reduces that camp to a hardcore of unlikely bedfellows comprised of racists, rent-a-mob anarchists and fascists.

Tom
I think the accusation of widespread "racism" is too extreme, and that what in fact motivated people was a feeling of insecurity for the future and being abused by politicians they disliked and let down by those they had trusted,
Undoubtedly there has been a generation long campaign to make the EU a scapegoat for Government failures and pretend that in some way things would have been better in a fictional ideal world where there was no outside parties to limit the power of Parliament, which despite this so called EUSSR influence has still managed to wage war (sometimes as a private venture) setting vast numbers of refugees on the journey here.
And with no sense of irony whatever Blamed that on the EU!
At the same time reducing swathes of the population to poverty and producing a fiction of "Full employment" at the same time.
A masterful manipulation of the Public perception of where the enemy lies if ever there was one.
With constant propaganda that the blame for the malaise gripping the country being laid at the door of the EU on a daily basis by the press, it is no surprise the way the Referendum vote went, as I have said previously, I expected an even bigger majority for leaving.

This is not really a criticism of the Public, merely cause and effect at work.
They never checked to see where the truth lay, but then they never expected to have to do so, Nor should they have had to!

Just why a large group of Politicians promoted this break with the EU is the question that is hard to grasp, they obviously are working in someone's interests, and towards some goal.
Who's interests?
Who's Goal?
It must be a very compelling impulse to take such an obviously huge risk with our futures, not theirs, as you can be sure they will profit somehow.
Is a cowed, subservient and financially desperate workforce the future for the Public of this country?
It certainly looks that way
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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two months on and still no brexit plan.
should brexit be postponed until there is a pro-brexit government and parliament?
I should think so (it may be a long wait).
There is a plan, it follows the wise words of Spike Milligan
"We haven't got a plan so nothing can go wrong."
(and on the plus side you can't cop as much blame as there would be if you did something, can you?)
It's on the lines of the poem about the invisible man.
"Yesterday upon the stair,
I met a man who wasn't there.
He wasn't there again today.
I wish, I wish, he'd go away"
It just needs a little rewrite to cover Boris and co

"Yesterday upon the stair, I met three men arguing there
They're arguing again today,
When they can't agree just what to say,
They'll get the blame,
Says Mrs May,
And that will really make my day!"

What's better than one mug to catch the blame? THREE HUGE Government departments run by Three suckers!
And like the mating of Elephants it will be accompanied by much stamping and roaring and take a hell of a long time to produce a result either good, bad or typical of Boris's second hand water cannon.
What's not to like?
 
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tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
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It will be patently obvious to anyone reading through this thread, (not that I imagine anyone would!), that in the absence of any evidence to support an economic case for leaving the EU, there must be some other reason.

As there is no no cultural advantage in leaving, no strategic or military advantage, no trade or employment benefit, then it has to be something else.

I said a long, long time ago that 'Brexit' was motivated primarily by racism and the arrogance and stupidity of a misguided section of the British public stirred up by fascist politicians who lied through their teeth to the public, ably supported by the right-wing media.

Recent contributions to the thread have only reinforced my view. It matters little though as, increasingly, the likelihood of the UK ever exiting the EU diminishes with every passing day, if any of the major news organs are to be believed. The appetite for 'Brexit' no longer appeals to large numbers of those who voted to leave which reduces that camp to a hardcore of unlikely bedfellows comprised of racists, rent-a-mob anarchists and fascists.

Tom
The threat posed by a collapsing Euro and several EU member states teetering on the brink of ecconomic catastrophe are pretty good reasons for getting out. You really should step outside the humourless and racism obsessed vacuum in which you reside.

The ease with which you and others of your type casually scatter accusations of racism around is actually quite damaging.

Firstly, it devalues the term racism. Eagerly scouring each post and scrutinising every word to see if can be manipulated or re-formed within you mind to take on a racial connotation is not healthy. Racism should be reserved for just that, racism.

Secondly, casual racism accusations have perpetuated a fear of being called a racist amongst large sections of the public. I do not include myself in that. I believe that these people should be goaded and baited for comedy value. However, the real damage caused by these unjustified racist accusations can be seen in cases such as the Rotherham child abuse scandal where it was suspected that men of Pakistani origin were committing sexually related crimes against children. The very people who were supposed to be providing protection were paralysed & rendered impotent through fears of racism accusations.
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
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www.kudoscycles.com
Old Tom....I agree with much of what you say except the damning categories that you pigeon hole the hardcore leavers.
I have friends who were ardent leavers immediately after the vote,some of those are now regreters and would have voted remain if they knew then what they know now. Those that voted because of anti immigration tend to still vote leave and are determined that we should pursue restricting immigration whatever the cost,they don't care about the effects on the economy. Note,I don't know anyone who voted remain who would now want to vote leave.
Some of our local farmers are now struggling to staff the farms,the EU workers just don't want to come here because of the xenophobia which is present,they are even considering employing prisoners to harvest the crops.
Our EU customers are busy buyers at the moment because goods look cheap with the relative strength of the Euro v £. I have stopped buying from dollar sourced countries (USA and Asia) until the pound strengthens against the dollar or I have opportunity to increase prices,probably by average 10%.
I don't think any of us had any idea of the problems of Brexit when we voted,there was no mention of NI,Scotland,Gibraltar splitting from the UK.
We made that vote based upon lies and very bad information.
It is not coincidence that poor areas of the U.K. were the areas that most voted Brexit ,places like Stoke and Hartlepool,when this is discussed these people think that voting Brexit would kick out the EU workers,reduce doctor and hospital waiting lists and give them well paying jobs without working too hard. I personally think we would be a poorer country,poorer financially and poorer culturally if we stop the EU migrants,we should use the tax take from these people to improve our schooling and health facilities to accommodate them.
We cannot have unlimited immigration but Brexit doesn't look like it's going to control EU immigration and we don't seem to be able to control immigration from the rest of the world.
I just cannot see how May's lightweight team is going to take us out of the EU,there are so many obstacles to achieve that,we may have some modest elements in the next manifesto to satisfy the leavers,the economic damage in the meantime is difficult.
With all the inevitable price rises that will come out over the next 12 months,will the leaver voters be looking for wage rises to compensate,I think they will be very disappointed,I don't think any leavers expected their leave vote to reduce their quality of lifestyle,in fact I think they expected the opposite was their expectation.
KudosDave
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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The threat posed by a collapsing Euro and several EU member states teetering on the brink of ecconomic catastrophe are pretty good reasons for getting out. You really should step outside the humourless and racism obsessed vacuum in which you reside.

The ease with which you and others of your type casually scatter accusations of racism around is actually quite damaging.

Firstly, it devalues the term racism. Eagerly scouring each post and scrutinising every word to see if can be manipulated or re-formed within you mind to take on a racial connotation is not healthy. Racism should be reserved for just that, racism.

Secondly, casual racism accusations have perpetuated a fear of being called a racist amongst large sections of the public. I do not include myself in that. I believe that these people should be goaded and baited for comedy value. However, the real damage caused by these unjustified racist accusations can be seen in cases such as the Rotherham child abuse scandal where it was suspected that men of Pakistani origin were committing sexually related crimes against children. The very people who were supposed to be providing protection were paralysed & rendered impotent through fears of racism accusations.
Actually I agree with almost all you have written, though this strikes me as alarming
"The threat posed by a collapsing Euro and several EU member states teetering on the brink of ecconomic catastrophe are pretty good reasons for getting out."
As you can simply substitute the pound for the Euro and see our own situation, is it a case of preferring a Private Funeral over a public one?
 
The threat posed by a collapsing Euro and several EU member states teetering on the brink of ecconomic catastrophe are pretty good reasons for getting out. You really should step outside the humourless and racism obsessed vacuum in which you reside.
I don't understand this logic? How do you think us leaving the EU is going to protect us from a collapse there (if)?? Its our biggest customer, if it fails, we fail no matter if we're in it or not. Its our neighbour, and I'm afraid even if we do leave the EU, we're never going to be able to float ourselves further out into the ocean to avoid any consequences of your concerns for the € zone.
 
It really does concern me. I've had some very frack conversations with people are who are very pro "leave" and in every case when you drill down to their reasons, they are pretty much nonsense.

Even the most educated / level headed person who I respect and know well argued that it was about taking back control from the unelected powers that be in Europe. He quoted the EU Commission as the justification for his argument.

The fact the Commission is not a law making or enforcing body, they just suggest them, and then its the European Parliment (elected) who decide on them was lost on him.

Another case of this whole debate being based on opinion and feeling, which is total nonsense in such an important decision. It should not be based on either of these things. It should be based on what is best for the nation... and if you need to decide what's best for something... the one thing you don't do is ask that thing, what's best for it. Because it'll always choose the thing is wants, not the thing it needs!
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
Another case of this whole debate being based on opinion and feeling, which is total nonsense in such an important decision. It should not be based on either of these things. It should be based on what is best for the nation... and if you need to decide what's best for something... the one thing you don't do is ask that thing, what's best for it. Because it'll always choose the thing is wants, not the thing it needs!
Very accurate, as recorded by this fellow a long time ago:

'The survival of democracy depends on the ability of large numbers of people to make realistic choices in the light of adequate information.'

Aldous Huxley

If only such information had been abroad pre-Brexit!

Tom
 

tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
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I wish I'd remembered this advice a while ago......

View attachment 15145

Tom
I see and I like. Quoting philosophers somehow elevates us to a higher emotional and intellectual plane from where we can regard the unwashed masses and ponder the absence of culture and intellect. Sold mate, I'm having some of this:

I think BREXIT is adequately summarised by the words of Parton, written in the mid 1980s

Life is just a series of peaks and troughs. And you don’t know whether you’re in a trough until you’re climbing out, or on a peak until you’re coming down. And that’s it you know, you never know what’s round the corner. But it’s all good. ‘If you want the rainbow, you’ve gotta put up with the rain.’
(Dolly Parton 1986)

And you thought that she was just a big pair of tits. You dirty old dog :)
 
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