they cast their vote as they were asked to.
There was no warning on the ballot papers: are you sure you really, properly know what you vote for if you vote leave?
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
There was no warning on the ballot papers: are you sure you really, properly know what you vote for if you vote leave?
Its your generation who voted the Tories in time after time that destroyed the manufacture base. We had to find a way to develop new industries to fill the gap.
You are thinking in the past if you think factory work is the future for a modern country.
It would be nice to produce BMWS rathe than just assemble nissans but its gone. And it's not coming back.
Though perhaps we should all have sat a GCSE in Brexit before referendum day. At least a pass being required in order to be allowed into the polling station.
(GCE in my day, don't make 'em like they used to...)
That's right so how will we earn our crust then, especially if Nissan and their fellow car manufacturers remove their British enterprises for greenfield sites elsewhere in the EU?
Perhaps you could take the opportunity to explain exactly how 'Brexit' will help the UK and its people. By that I mean, what precisely will the benefits be and when will we notice?
Tom
By way of an aside, I see that Richard Baker has passed away, aged 93.
A Peterhouse man with an excellent CV, some readers here may remember him as a newsreader back in the 1950s when he made the transition from radio to TV.
His obituary is interesting as it gives a small insight into the broadcasting philosophy of the Beeb in those early days of television:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-41023864
Tom
A Peterhouse man with an excellent CV, some readers here may remember him as a newsreader back in the 1950s when he made the transition from radio to TV.
His obituary is interesting as it gives a small insight into the broadcasting philosophy of the Beeb in those early days of television:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-41023864
Tom
That is unfortunately a recipe for long term decline. When a country is manufacturing widgets it is usually investing 10% of the production costs into further R&D ,so they can make better widgets. Now at an early stage an economy like the higher developed UK or even the EU can trade in their prior expertise in R&D and world class research labs,and just licence production to the lower cost economy but without at.least pilot production the R&D atrophies .
Holding on to Service industries is fine in the short term, but it does require legal and licensing deals ,that expertise gets lost.
This is the mistake that Germany has not made. Nor France,to some extent nor Italy with its major domestic appliance production. But it is the mistake that the UK had made. The sale of Arm Holdings in Cambridge, which is was world class to the Japanese two years ago ,was a national own goal.
.. I cannot follow why that is a reason. It is the short term thinking of British financial houses,which allows them to literally sell the family jewels.. pun intended... . The emasculation is important. Other European countries have invested in education ,with strong eu backing to develop high tech capability in the newer industries pharma, nuclear , electronics. . The UK has failed to invest in quality engineering apprenticeships in the newer technologies. ..and to make matters worse,the only current global leader..in its field Arm Holdings with its leadship position in mobile telephony they then sell it off!!.. to cheers from the political class.
Fingers, you've done it again, haven't you? jumped to the wrong conclusions once again.
It isn't "our" generation that did this anymore than it is "Yours"
Anyone who votes Conservative, or for that matter New Labour is not a victim but an accomplice to the destruction.
Exactly what "New Industries" did the mythical "We" develop? we had industries that should have been automated releasing the workers to more gainful pursuits in technology arts and science, but what did the investors do? decided it was a risk they could avoid by investing in the Far East and China where cheap labour and lax safety and envorinmental rules meant a guaranteed profit, and starved of investment and support the country has failed miserably in the technical industries because of Government policies.
And what happened to our resources? we still sit on top of millions of tons of Iron ore, but rather than modernise extraction, we destroy our steel industry by selling it to Tata, who bought it in order to close down a competitor, and sold off North Sea oil and Gas.
And there a millions of tons of Copper under Parys Mountain on Anglesey. again no effort is being made to employ modern methods of extraction and further processing.
Which brings me down to Aluminium we had a massive plant powered by Wilfa Nuclear power station on Anglesey, both now closed.
None of these things were done by the EU were they?
They were self inflicted wounds, and now in a final mad twist of this tale, in protest 17.5 million voted to leave the EU and place themselves at the mercy of the villains who brought the country down and expect Corbyn to somehow put the country on it's feet.
What were you thinking of to vote to leave the EU when the ship of state isn't merely sinking, it's firmly aground on rocks!
This is what I have against Brexit.
It was doomed from the start by the circumstance caused by Conservative Rule,
How is he expected to do that when we have no access or even use for Coal, Iron, aluminium, oil and gas .
You couldn't be more wrong if you think this
"You are thinking in the past if you think factory work is the future for a modern country.
It is, but it has to be automated: we were denied this future by the monied classes investing instead in the Far East Slave Labour economies for a quick buck.
They are your real enemies, and it's their money that bought Brexit to use against you.
You haven't answered my question, how do we earn the money to buy what we need to live? You clearly have no answer.
And once again you've shown your lack of knowledge in your comment of "assemble Nissans". The Nissans produced in Sunderland are predominantly manufactured here by a large number of peripheral suppliers as well as the Sunderland plant. Sunderland even manufactures the batteries for the Leaf EV in a major new battery plant.
Nissan UK hold the all time record of 1 million cars produced in the UK in two years, exporting to 92 countries and employing a chain of some 28,000 people directly and within suppliers.
And all because of our EU membership. Now because of stupidity we are threatened with losing all that.
.
No, very much from the present rathe than the past where leavers seem to be.
Fingers, try these for a start
The EU will not give us the terms of membership when we leave.
We do not have a competent Government or opposition
We have made no preparations for leaving
We cannot patrol 7,500 miles of our coastline
We don't have any Trading agreements
We don't have any Guarantee that our financial sector will not lose out
We don't have any Guarantee over the 50% of our industry that is foreign owned remaining.
The NHS is failing for lack of qualified people we have neither the time or the will to train replacements for.
Which one of those can you dispute?
it won't go that far.
If we crash out without a deal, a lot of predictions will be tested, voters won't take long to want to rejoin.
You're in danger of being too smug.
Ford Dagenham once had the world's most complete car manufacturing plant, 32,000 people doing everything from casting the cylinder blocks in their own foundry to sewing the upholstery.
It's all gone, now in mainland Europe. There's just a little plant in Dagenham now assembling small diesel engines, which will disappear if there's any delay or tariff disruption in the supply chain.
That shows how easy it will be for Nissan with just 9300 direct employees to transfer its investment to mainland Europe, phasing its manufacturing to there, just as Ford did.
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Your anger is creating confusion for you.
I used the word assemble because we do not own Nissan. Its is not a UK company. Understand?
There are new industries being created all the time. We have a multi billion pound Gaming industry. Our creative industries are roaring atm. You can't book a sound stage for nearly 2 years because of demand. We are on of the biggest players in Space technology. We make the best aircraft wings, the best aircraft engines our finance services are the best in the world. I could go on and on. There are lots of things to be optimistic about in this country.
And please. Calm down or your going to do yourself a mischief.
If all this is true (I have no idea if it is or not) then it will have all been achieved while we have been members of the EU. I am old enough to remember when we were not part of the club and we were known as the poor man of Europe.
I have always thought that leaving the EU, was taking a huge risk for possible very little or no reward. Did the EU need change of course it did, and I think if we stay in there are enough leaders in the 27 that would help change it.
Gaming Industry? so what
Best Aircraft wings? how long for if the supply chains are disrupted?
Bloomberg report
Britain’s five-decade dominance of wing construction for Airbus SE jets is under threat from rival countries playing up the uncertainties surrounding Brexit to pitch for a share of the high-value, precision manufacturing work.
Airbus has been approached by at least seven governments looking to poach future wing production after the company raised concerns about Britain quitting the European Union, stirring fears at the planemaker’s U.K. unit that it may see an erosion of its leading role, according to people familiar with the matter.
Financial Services?
Very uncertain future there!
By the way
"And please. Calm down or your going to do yourself a mischief"
Leavers have called this mess and sacrificed the right to be patronising in the process.
I honestly think it was inevitable. Certainly within a decade so we may as well get on with it now.
We were never going to join the Euro we didn't was closer intergration and the EUs plan for 2 tiered intergration still meant the destination was the same. Just a different pace.
There is no appetite, apart from a few true believers who want the Euro in this country or even more laws from Brussels let alone being handed a budget by them and thats where its headed.