Brexit, for once some facts.

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Can

You not envisage the extra expense of removing the diagonal red cross from the Union Jack?...the so called Saltire of St. Patrick, all those tea towels and bunting which would have to be recalled, as unfit for purpose. Not to mention that a particular political party might have to give up the nickname Tory, as it means Irish outlaw.
We can economise, after a fresh Scottish independence referendum St Andrew's saltire wouldn't be needed either. We already have the cross of St George flag so there'd be no extra expense.

And the Tories would have to have a complete name change anyway, since being a conservative and unionist party with no union left makes no sense.
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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I wonder if the reduced murder rates in January February in New York ,are due to their inclement weather,whereas warmer weather in London allows more people being out and about
Indeed, I almost included that bitter cold element in my post to Tillson but didn't want to overload it and detract from the most important elements:

"Earlier this year, headlines claiming London’s murder rate was higher than New York City’s sent shockwaves around Britain. It followed a violent start to the year in the capital – with 18 murders in February alone, compared to 14 in New York. However, the month proved to be a one-off according to new figures.

The murder rate in London is still smaller than New York’s. In every other month of 2018, there has been more murders in New York than London, despite it having a smaller population. Between January and June, there were 80 homicides in London, reports the BBC. But in the same six months, New York has had almost twice as many murder cases – 141 so far."

https://metro.co.uk/
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oyster

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Mmm, I'm not sure I understand that part, 'oyster' but I do firmly believe that divesting Great Britain of the NI acquisition of a previous age with different objectives from those important in the 21st century, would be a great service to the mainland British people.

Tom
I just meant that if it is right for NI to become one with the rest of Ireland, then let it happen. If it is right for NI to stay within the UK, let that be.

Even if A50 were rescinded a decision about NI could be implemented - either way. (Though, obviously, the default will always be for it to stay in the UK as anything else requires a decision and action.)
 
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oldtom

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Can You not envisage the extra expense of removing the diagonal red cross from the Union Jack?...the so called Saltire of St. Patrick, all those tea towels and bunting which would have to be recalled, as unfit for purpose. Not to mention that a particular political party might have to give up the nickname Tory, as it means Irish outlaw.
Now, in the bigger picture over a longer term, such expenses would be peanuts compared to the ongoing financial support given to the occupied territory in the north of Ireland.

I would happily dig into my savings and contribute to such a cause!

Tom
 

oyster

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We can economise, after a fresh Scottish independence referendum St Andrew's saltire wouldn't be needed either. We already have the cross of St George flag so there'd be no extra expense.

And the Tories would have to have a complete name change anyway, since being a conservative and unionist party with no union left makes no sense.
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The textile industry over overprints unwanted fabric. (Much lining material of cars used to be overprinted "carpet" as used in hospitals.)

Obviously, an all-black overprint would do the job nicely. (Hope the NZ rugby bods don't object.)
 

oldgroaner

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Just received a strange package from the North Pole with a message asking me to pass on the contents to 'tommie' as the previous owner has no further need of them?

View attachment 27543 While I'm not sure about the previous owner having no further need of them, they're nevertheless all yours 'tommie' and they'll fit as one size fits all trolls.

Tom
What happened to the matching Bowler Hat?
 
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Danidl

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Taken from the Waterford Whisperer

A testament to how obstinately stupid senior Brexit negotiators for Britain have remained over the last two years when confronted with conditions they willfully signed up to and set in motion is evidenced in the EU’s decision to take a break from negotiations and choosing to bang their heads directly against brick walls in search of a relaxing respite.

When presented with a copy of the report containing overwhelming evidence that the British government has refused to find a solution to a problem of its own making, Brexit Secretary Dominic Raab donned a top hat, monocle and produced a 1862 copy of Punch from his pocket before issuing his response.

“What Paddy wants, Paddy seems to think he’ll get. But don’t forget we domesticated the wild creatures, and I’ll be damned if we’ll be dictated to by a pack of dogs who should count themselves lucky we haven’t conspired to blight their potatoes, everybody knows Paddy forced us to vote ourselves into this horrid economic abyss,” Raab said to loud cheers of ‘hear, hear’ from his Conservative Party colleagues.
 

Woosh

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some sobering comments from the FT:

"For far too long British politicians, journalists and voters have enjoyed a patently distorted vision of the nation as indispensable world player. Now the nation is facing the painful truth that the UK is not as pre-eminent as it has liked to believe. For proof, look at the negotiations over the Irish border. One need not get into the rights and wrongs to see that the UK has essentially been pushed around by Ireland, because the EU has thrown its weight behind the demands of its continuing member. The hard fact is that the power imbalance has meant the UK is being forced to choose between the chaos of a no-deal Brexit or undermining the constitutional integrity of one of its four sovereign parts and signing up to a significant amount of rule-taking. This is what happens when a single country that is not America or China negotiates with a global trading bloc."

https://www.ft.com/content/29468d52-e0e5-11e8-8e70-5e22a430c1ad
 

Danidl

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"Hardly surprising when you let in the dregs of europe, a shower of useless good for nuthin malingerers, gainful employment is foreign to them, they breed like rabbits and scrounge for a living, scamming the honest tax payer for every benefit possible."

Hi come on now Tommie, that is not a Christian way to talk about the DUP. ,Please you are better than that.
Tommie, I remain puzzled, is that I used the word Christian in the same sentence as DUP, or does it relate to the quotation , which was taken directly from your prior posting... Which of these sections was offensive?.
 
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Danidl

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some sobering comments from the FT:

"For far too long British politicians, journalists and voters have enjoyed a patently distorted vision of the nation as indispensable world player. Now the nation is facing the painful truth that the UK is not as pre-eminent as it has liked to believe. For proof, look at the negotiations over the Irish border. One need not get into the rights and wrongs to see that the UK has essentially been pushed around by Ireland, because the EU has thrown its weight behind the demands of its continuing member. The hard fact is that the power imbalance has meant the UK is being forced to choose between the chaos of a no-deal Brexit or undermining the constitutional integrity of one of its four sovereign parts and signing up to a significant amount of rule-taking. This is what happens when a single country that is not America or China negotiates with a global trading bloc."

https://www.ft.com/content/29468d52-e0e5-11e8-8e70-5e22a430c1ad
Woosh, if you go back to my last response to you, and while it was not worded so eloquently, did echo the same sentiment.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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some sobering comments from the FT:

"For far too long British politicians, journalists and voters have enjoyed a patently distorted vision of the nation as indispensable world player. Now the nation is facing the painful truth that the UK is not as pre-eminent as it has liked to believe. For proof, look at the negotiations over the Irish border. One need not get into the rights and wrongs to see that the UK has essentially been pushed around by Ireland, because the EU has thrown its weight behind the demands of its continuing member. The hard fact is that the power imbalance has meant the UK is being forced to choose between the chaos of a no-deal Brexit or undermining the constitutional integrity of one of its four sovereign parts and signing up to a significant amount of rule-taking. This is what happens when a single country that is not America or China negotiates with a global trading bloc."

https://www.ft.com/content/29468d52-e0e5-11e8-8e70-5e22a430c1ad
A perfect assessment and what I've been saying about the UK's status ever since the 1950s as an under 18 teenager. Why has it taken so long for a minority of adults in this country to realise this truth when an ordinary kid recognised it and argued it over 60 years ago?

It's even more depressing that well over half of the UK population still haven't realised it.
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oldgroaner

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A perfect assessment and what I've been saying about the UK's status ever since the 1950s as an under 18 teenager. Why has it taken so long for a minority of adults in this country to realise this truth when an ordinary kid recognised it and argued it over 60 years ago?

It's even more depressing that well over half of the UK population still haven't realised it.
.



To misquote Gove who wanted "All schools to be above average" to assume intelligence is widespread requires similar non logic to apply and assert that "All British people are above average"
 
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oldgroaner

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This week's Brexit Diversion
"
VLAD'S K-GB SPIES
Vladmir Putin has up to 75,000 Russian spies in Britain, shock report reveals


Dr Andrew Foxall revealed up to half of the 150,000 Russian ex-pats in Britain are feared to be spy service 'assets'
RUSSIA has up to 75,000 spies on our streets, a shock report claimed yesterday.

Vladimir Putin’s army of spooks has risen five-fold in eight years, with 200 “case officers” each handling hundreds of agents, it warned.
Kremlin espionage expert Dr Andrew Foxall said up to half of the 150,000 Russian expats in Britain are feared to be “assets”.

Many have links to spy agencies including KGB replacement, the FSB, or the GRU,
As many as half of all Russian Embassy diplomats are also actively engaged in intelligence work, the report claimed.

The Russian spy force is 52 times that of the UK. It sparked fears Britain’s Warnings Index — used by border chiefs to flag up spies — has proved ineffective.

Typical reader comments
"
Dwayne Pipe 9 hours ago


Just another number to add to the growing total of people ( returning Jihadis, bomb plotters, etc) intent on doing this country harm. I suppose, figuratively speaking, you could add a good number of the Labour leadership to that.

Come one, come all, we have to be up there in the charts as the softest touch country in the entire world!


Open Minded 7 hours ago
With 17.4million people voting for national economic suicide we don't really need anybody else's help wrecking the uk

My Favourite was this
Slim BoyFat 11 hours ago


The bloke who's just moved in next door to me looks a bit dodgy. He's from Russia, in fact he's from Minsk. I reckon he's a Minsk spy.

Minsk spy indeed! :D
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
What happened to the matching Bowler Hat?
I'm pretty certain that 'tommie' is already equipped with a bowler, along with various bits of brightly-coloured paraphernalia and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he plays a musical instrument and likes to walk the city streets in midsummer, dressed in his finery and believing that god is on his side.

Besides the term, 'There's none so blind as those that will not see', Robert Burns once declared:

O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion:
What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e us,
An' ev'n devotion!


Tom
 
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wheeler

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Just received a strange package from the North Pole with a message asking me to pass on the contents to 'tommie' as the previous owner has no further need of them?

View attachment 27543 While I'm not sure about the previous owner having no further need of them, they're nevertheless all yours 'tommie' and they'll fit as one size fits all trolls.

Tom
You won't get tommie just now, Tuesday is flute band practice.

wheeler
 

oldgroaner

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Harking back to the notorious Marr interview of banks, this from "open democracy"

"
Arron Banks has been accused by MPs of “not telling the truth” after whistleblowers told openDemocracy that the Leave.EU founder misled viewers about his controversial Brexit campaign on Sunday’s Andrew Marr show.

Banks, who is now under criminal investigation over his £8m Brexit donations, told the BBC that staff at his Eldon Insurance company who worked on his Leave.EU campaign were put on separate contracts. Banks also claimed that this arrangement was declared to the UK’s electoral watchdog, as is required by law.

But interviews with former Eldon staff and documents seen by openDemocracy suggest that employees regularly worked on both Banks’s insurance business and his political campaign. “There were no separate contracts for the Leave work. None at all. You were just told to do that at the same time as working on the insurance business,” a former Eldon staffer told openDemocracy.

The Electoral Commission also said that it "has no record of Leave.EU reporting services it received from Eldon Insurance for the referendum."

Banks has been under pressure to explain the relationship between his insurance business and Leave.EU after openDemocracy revealed that staff worked for both organisations ahead of the Brexit referendum. Any such work in the months before the election should be declared under electoral law, and Mr Banks has repeatedly denied any such work taking place. In June, he told parliament that there was no overlap between Eldon and Leave.EU.

Damian Collins MP, chair of parliament’s inquiry into fake news, said that openDemocracy’s latest revelations show that Banks is “not telling the truth once again”.

Ah well hopefully this will be used at his trial
 
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oldtom

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Why has it taken so long for a minority of adults in this country to realise this truth when an ordinary kid recognised it and argued it over 60 years ago?
The brainwashing of the British public had started even back then 'flecc' and you'll remember Churchill made the most of his recently acquired adulation as the saviour of the nation and indeed the world. Even as children, we were fed a diet of the likes of 'Commando', a comic-type magazine for young lads which depicted British soldiers as supermen killing nazis.

Basically, the story was similar in many ways to 'Roy of the Rovers' a blonde (seemed almost Aryan?) superhero, except it indoctrinated our young people with the sure knowledge that it was Britain that won the war; that we were the best at everything; it was Britain that invented everything worth inventing including football and we were the best at that too….ok, England were thrashed 6-3 by the Hungarians at Wembley in 1953 but we were conditioned to think of that as a freak result, a blip, probably never to be repeated. Sadly, for England, the opportunity for revenge occurred a few months later in 1954 but that turned out to be another blip, this time a comprehensive 7-1 defeat……but we all carried on regardless!

Undeterred, and the little matters of the Singapore surrender and the evacuation of Dunkirk firmly buried by the British media, we young people could attend school with our heads held high because, 'We won the war! - We won the war!' chanted at frequent intervals made us feel good; assured us that it is the British who are the real master race, not the defeated Germans! Indeed, our world maps in our school classrooms portrayed clearly that Britain owned half the planet as all the pink bits were ours!

Fast-forward half a century or so and the unrelenting mind-bending practised incessantly by the BBC, SKY and the mainstream press on behalf of the tory government and their friends and benefactors in the British establishment, continues unabated. Add to that the hand-me-down tales from misinformed parents already brainwashed to children, generation after generation and it's not hard to see why we have a nation of people, wholly incapable of understanding logic and truth, such is the success of lifelong brainwashing through propaganda.

It follows that after a diet of lifelong jingoism at home, at school, at work, at football matches and so on, what is correctly described as racism is rife in many strata of society and the arrogance that accompanies such beliefs has manifested itself in holiday resorts all over Europe since the early days of the package holiday.

Those people who thought it a great idea to vote to leave the EU should have done some research and should have exercised great care about what they wished for!

It isn't too late to turn things around and if anyone thinks Theresa May's judgement and leadership is better now as PM than it was as Home Sec, they really need treatment.

While he may not agree with anything else that flowed from my hands in this piece, I feel secure in the knowledge that 'Tillson' will share my opinion of the idiot woman keeping the seat warm for a real PM…..oh, 'flecc' too won't be upset to read any criticism of May, a failure twice in high office now.

Tom
 

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