Brexit, for once some facts.

oyster

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A little more background here (or sour grapes I am told):cool:

If this rogue fell off a Russian Private Yacht into a sea filled with man eating sharks
They would throw him back out of professional courtesy :D
The sharks didn't throw Robert Maxwell back onto the Lady Ghislaine. :)
 
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oldgroaner

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And just to firmly nail down the coffin lid on this Urban Myth, here is were the Dupes who believed it got it from
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3580060/Now-Cameron-warns-Brexit-lead-war-genocide-PM-s-extraordinary-intervention-leads-campaigners-accuse-Downing-Street-desperation.html
"
Now Cameron warns Brexit would lead to war and genocide: PM's extraordinary intervention - but Out camp accuses him of desperation as Downing St ramps up Project Fear
  • Europe risks war and genocide if Britain votes to leave EU, PM will warn
  • His speech will invoke Winston Churchill and the graves of war heroes
  • Remain camp has also claimed house prices could collapse with Brexit
  • But Vote Leave campaigners have accused Downing Street of desperation
Europe risks sliding back into conflict and genocide if Britain votes to leave the EU, David Cameron will say today.

But as I demonstrated conclusively with that video and speech extract he never said it did he?
The Daily Mail simply said that he would, not that he had!
Sorry Tommie, I know you don't understand facts.
And here is something about your DUP
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-dup-brexit-donations-saudi-arabia-tale-tories-theresa-may-a7782681.html
It is a strange tale involving Theresa May’s new “friends” in the Democratic Unionist Party, the Brexit referendum campaign and a mysterious donation of £425,000.

And, while those involved have refused to reveal more than a few details, there has been allegedly “fanciful” talk of “an arms drop in India” and the involvement of Russian President Vladimir Putin and Saudi intelligence.


The story began with a four-page, wrap-around cover advert in the Metro newspaper promoting the Leave campaign ahead of the Brexit referendum in June 2016, an extraordinary move that cost some £282,000.

This turned out to have been paid for by the DUP, which was odd as the party only stands in Northern Ireland where the Metro is not published.
Under Northern Ireland’s electoral laws, political donations do not need to be publicly declared, a legacy from the region’s Troubles, when funding a political party might make someone a target for terrorists.

However in February, after some political pressure over the issue, the DUP MP Sir Jeffrey Donaldson revealed that the adverts had been paid using a £425,000 donation from a group called the Constitutional Research Council (CRC), chaired by former Scottish Conservative vice-chairman and Glasgow-based businessman, Richard Cook.

This sparked further questions about the ultimate source of the money. Mr Cook told The Sunday Times that the CRC had three other members, but declined to identify them.

He did decide to try to dampen down some of the speculation about who had been involved.
“There have been rumours that the DUP got this money from Vladimir Putin, dark shadowy groups, then Saudi intelligence and even from beneficiaries of an arms drop in India. It is all fanciful nonsense,” he told the paper.

He said the group had not received foreign funding and added that he was in touch with business people prepared to donate six-figure sums to help the Union campaign in the event of a second Scottish independence referendum.
The Saudi intelligence link was suggested by Adam Ramsay, co-editor of the openDemocracyUK website.

By examining documents held by Companies House, he discovered Mr Cook and the former director-general of the Saudi intelligence service, the late Prince Nawwaf bin Abdul Aziz, had founded a company called Five Star Investment Management in 2013, which was dissolved the following year.

Mr Ramsay said he had no evidence that the £425,000 had come from a Saudi source.
But he added: “Saudi Arabia is a country flush with a huge amount of cash and I don’t think it’s crazy to think they would a, have an interest in a major event like Brexit and b, try to influence it in some way.”

Saudi economists, he noted, had argued that the referendum result was good for the country because of the subsequent fall in the value of the pound.

The routing of the money via the DUP effectively maintained the anonymity of the donor.
Kellie Armstrong, a member of the Stormont Assembly representing Strangford, said her party, the non-sectarian Alliance, and the Greens were the only ones in Northern Ireland to publish their donations.

She said, given it was “19 years since the Good Friday Agreement was signed”, the time had come to be open about the sources of political funding.

“I’ve challenged the DUP as to why they do not publish their donations,” she said.

“A number [of other parties] have said they would go forward and publish their donations. The DUP has said that, but they haven’t done it yet.”

She said it was strange for the DUP to pay for political adverts people who might vote for them would never see.

“Why are they advertising something there?” Ms Armstrong said.
By the way who are the The CRC?

The CRC has no website, publishes no accounts and does not reveal the names of its donors.
The CRC has also funded the European Research Group and its chairman, the Brexit minister Steve Baker
What a Squalid bunch! they reveal that the source of their money is an even worse bunch of liars and cheats that hide their accounts too!

Only a gullible mug would support a party as dodgy as they are!

Perhaps you can explain where the money came from, Tommie? was it a lesson in Diplomacy?
 
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oyster

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BBC news has this:

Brexit: Business leaders call for second EU vote
More than 70 business leaders have signed a letter to the Sunday Times calling for a public vote on the UK's Brexit deal.

The chief executive of Waterstones and former Sainsbury's boss Justin King are among those saying a "destructive hard Brexit" will damage the UK economy.

A group called Business for a People's Vote will launch on Thursday.

A Downing Street source told the BBC the Prime Minister was clear that there would be no new referendum.

The letter was coordinated by The People's Vote campaign, which wants a ballot on whether to accept the terms of the UK's departure from the European Union.

Richard Reed, the co-founder of Innocent Drinks, Lord Myners, the former chairman of Marks and Spencer and Martha Lane Fox, the founder of Lastminute.com, also signed the letter.
 
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oldgroaner

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It was inferred in the same the remain lot say the nhs was ‘promised’ an extra 350 million a week.

It never was.
You've done it again haven't you? if it was only inferred, why did Farage say this?
"
Nigel Farage has already admitted this huge 'Brexit' NHS promise was a mistake"


Good Morning Britain‏Verified account @GMB


WATCH: @Nigel_Farage tells @susannareid100 it was a 'mistake' for Leave to claim there'd be £350M a week for NHS
Note that he agrees that the Leave campagn made that promise

And here is a version with the admission he made edited out!


The leave campaign clearly hope that people won't spot their changing the evidence to avoid people hearing what was truly said!
They are a pack of liars and cheats, why are you not waking up to the fact you have been mislead?
 
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oyster

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More Banks crap:

Arron Banks faces new claims of misleading MPs over Brexit

Leaked messages ‘show undeclared links’; emails ‘contradict statements to MPs’

The controversial businessman Arron Banks may have misled parliament over links between his pro-Brexit campaign and his insurance business during the EU referendum, according to explosive correspondence released by whistleblowers.


Hundreds of internal emails leaked by former employees from Eldon Insurance and Rock Services to the Observer reveal that – despite categorical denials by Banks – insurance staff worked on the Leave.EU campaign from their company offices.

Any work carried out in the months before the referendum should have been declared under electoral law.


They indicate that Eldon and Rock Services staff contacted companies for material for apparent use in the Brexit campaign, and discussed sharing data. In a separate investigation released today, the website Open Democracy also publishes evidence that suggests significant crossover between Banks’s insurance and political staff during the campaign.


The revelations come days after the National Crime Agency announced it was investigating allegations of criminal offences by Banks and Leave.EU.


Damian Collins, chair of parliament’s inquiry into fake news, said that the leaked emails appeared to “flatly contradict” what Banks had told his committee, and that he could have “deliberately misled the committee and parliament on an important point”. Collins requested the emails and said they would form key evidence as part of his inquiry into disinformation and its threat to democracy.


The latest allegations to hit Banks come before an appearance on the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show . The businessman flew home from Bermuda on Saturday. Collins said: “If Eldon employees were being paid to work on the campaign during the regulated period, it should have been a declared expense. We asked him directly if he’d used his insurance employees to work on the campaigns and he said they didn’t.”


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/03/arron-banks-faces-new-claims-of-misleading-mps-over-brexit

Pity that the HoC has shown itself to be supine, so far, in response to those who have failed to appear, or have been less that scrupulously honest.

ALSO:

Threats, bullying, vindictiveness: how Arron Banks repels charges against him

Carole Cadwalladr


https://www.theguardian.com/global/commentisfree/2018/nov/03/threats-bullying-and-vindictiveness-how-arron-banks-repels-charges-against-him
 
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Danidl

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Pity that the HoC has shown itself to be supine, so far, in response to those who have failed to appear, or have been less that scrupulously honest.

Without making too much of it , politicans in these committees are not great. They do not have the expertise or experience to effectively question . We have seen it elsewhere, in the US Senate, Irish Dail committees
 
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oyster

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Pity that the HoC has shown itself to be supine, so far, in response to those who have failed to appear, or have been less that scrupulously honest.

Without making too much of it , politicans in these committees are not great. They do not have the expertise or experience to effectively question . We have seen it elsewhere, in the US Senate, Irish Daily committees
Certainly we have. And something seriously needs to change.
 

Kudoscycles

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The Sunday Times is suggesting that TM has a secret deal to keep the whole of the U.K. in the customs union,there will be some form of exit clause to keep the Brexiteers happy....Sounds like a Brino fudge.
Looks like we will be tied to the EU without any voting rights,how is that a good Brexit,surely neither Leavers or Remainers can think that is a good deal.
We need a straightforward vote either crash out or stay in,anything between is useless,give us a second vote.
KudosDave
 
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Danidl

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The Sunday Times is suggesting that TM has a secret deal to keep the whole of the U.K. in the customs union,there will be some form of exit clause to keep the Brexiteers happy....Sounds like a Brino fudge.
Looks like we will be tied to the EU without any voting rights,how is that a good Brexit,surely neither Leavers or Remainers can think that is a good deal.
We need a straightforward vote either crash out or stay in,anything between is useless,give us a second vote.
KudosDave
Sorry Kudos, staying in the Customs Union is anything but useless. It is a far cry worse than cancelling BREXIt, but a far far better option than crashing out
. For those of a traditional religious view, it could be viewed as purgatory, not hell. If I remember my teaching .. Purgatory is a state where souls would go to be cleansed of their sins, before eventually entering Heaven. A place of punishment but not of everlasting torment. .. Sounds about right?.
 

oldgroaner

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The Sunday Times is suggesting that TM has a secret deal to keep the whole of the U.K. in the customs union,there will be some form of exit clause to keep the Brexiteers happy....Sounds like a Brino fudge.
Looks like we will be tied to the EU without any voting rights,how is that a good Brexit,surely neither Leavers or Remainers can think that is a good deal.
We need a straightforward vote either crash out or stay in,anything between is useless,give us a second vote.
KudosDave
There is more than enough evidence to declare the Refrendum result null and void on legal grounds.
It needs to be cancelled.
By all means have another one, better still forget the whole thing and apologise
 
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Woosh

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Sorry Kudos, staying in the Customs Union is anything but useless. It is a far cry worse than cancelling BREXIt, but a far far better option than crashing out
. For those of a traditional religious view, it could be viewed as purgatory, not hell. If I remember my teaching .. Purgatory is a state where souls would go to be cleansed of their sins, before eventually entering Heaven. A place of punishment but not of everlasting torment. .. Sounds about right?.
I am happy with the UK staying in the customs union until a new more permanent deal or second referendum.
 
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oyster

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I am happy with the UK staying in the customs union until a new more permanent deal or second referendum.
The idea of leaving but staying within the customs union, then having a different permanent deal or a second referendum, is awful.

When we have the second referendum, it must be before the world has been turned upside down.
 

oyster

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Support for a second referendum from this quarter might be a mixed blessing:

Tony Blair urges MPs to vote down any Brexit deal and push for people's vote
Former Labour leader says there is no outcome Theresa May can secure that will be good for the country
 

Danidl

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The idea of leaving but staying within the customs union, then having a different permanent deal or a second referendum, is awful.

When we have the second referendum, it must be before the world has been turned upside down.
Awful is a better state than dire. There are no good outcomes, except a total change of heart ,between now and March, and common sense suggests that that is not going to happen.
The third option ,again religious in nature is that UK enters a Limbo ,by getting an extension.
 
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