Brexit, for once some facts.

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
Returning to the subject of 'Brexit', I pulled this from the 'Brexit Exposed' website earlier and it seems to me a realistic assessment of where we are with 'Brexit' at the present time:

43509280_1100259290143691_4300986486506913792_n.jpg

BrexitExposed - Posts
EDITORIAL | There is no ‘deal’, Leavers.

Do you actually understand this - and what it means to you?

We are only negotiating a Withdrawal Agreement (WA) as per Article 50. No trade deal can be negotiated before we leave on March 29 next year. That is against EU rules. The ‘trade’ part is only a non-legal document about intent. Intent can change and is not binding in any shape or form. It can be discarded without consequences.

The EU is only negotiating to secure three things. The exit bill, citizens’ rights - and a guarantee that there will never be - whatever happens in any subsequent trade negotiation - a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

Once achieved, their primary job is done.

Once these three things are secured in a transition period where the UK will agree to follow all regulatory and trade rules of the EU, staying within its economic structures, including making no separate trade deals, without any political say on these, there is no reason for the EU push for any trade deals or speed up future negotiations.

We will be within its previous economic trade zone, paying our dues, under jurisdiction of its court, but we are powerless to influence anything anymore.

We’re like a servant, quietly doing what we are told, with no right to speak. Once a master, now a slave.

On the contrary, their motivation will be the opposite to work fast. The now third-country, troublesome UK is tied into all its economic structures - like we never left - but without any say in any political decisions. Dragging out negotiation on trade, keeping the status quo, will be a goal in itself.

Again, as the UK is the supplicant in the negotiations, the EU being the more powerful trading bloc and the EU having secured its Ireland backstop guarantee, it cannot lose. The UK will already have shown it cannot walk away without a trade deal and leave the regulatory and agency controls which intertwine the trade between itself and the EU.

We have lost all control. The EU has gained full control. You knew what you voted for, Leavers, right? Because you actually understood how Article 50 works?

We didn’t think so.

This is what your own masters call being an ‘EU colony’ or ‘vassal-state’. You created this by your impatience to trigger Article 50 (which you didn’t understand) and by your delusion of the power balance between the EU and the UK (which you were lied to about).

This is why Theresa May is desperate to get something concrete on trade to sign the WA - but can’t, as it is not legally binding or enforceable after March 29 2019.

Theresa May has incredulously screwed up the Brexit for you.

First she triggered Article 50 without a plan or preparation.

Then she proceeded to negotiate with a divided party and parliament which has no idea what Brexit it wants, insulting the EU and its citizens in the process with comparisons to USSR, Nazis and citizens of nowhere.

Finally she procrastinated so long that she has run out of time and must give in on red lines as deadlines loom.

The only alternative to this is to walk away without a deal. Even the Government knows that this is not tenable and a solution we can pursue (we know this through leaks and by its own desperate disposal of red lines, whenever it has to).

A No Deal will also simply not pass Parliament.

The only Brexit on offer to you, Leavers, is this ‘EU colony’ or ‘vassal-state’ option.

Either by accepting single market and customs union membership straight away so a trade deal can be quickly made, or by staying in the economic structures in the transition deal for many years, without any Brexit benefits or global trade deals and with continued economic uncertainty eating away the financial position of UK plc (read: your jobs) as we grow weaker and weaker and more supplicatory to the EU.

This is your legacy, Leavers. You won the referendum but you’re losing Brexit to your worst nightmare; a Stay, Pay and Obey outcome - because the odds were always impossible against the clueless no-plan snake oil salesmen you listened to and your folly in believing them.

Can you see it yet? We doubt it. But you can happily prove us all wrong by starting to think before it’s too late.

Tom
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
This is from the web blog known as 'A Nation Divided':

43411602_901190013414374_7382901550345093120_n.jpg

I'm glad to see some of the good folk of the north recognise what a crock of hist 'Brexit' is turning out to be.

This part is terrible if factual - perhaps 'Oyster' can confirm or deny the claim?

There is a little more positive news however:

43618892_1256382414504275_227315645266526208_o.png

Tom
 
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oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
The new immigration rules recently announced by the fascist overlord in charge of the tory Party are incredibly discriminatory and I had to think long and hard to identify a group of unskilled workers earning in excess of 50K per annum.

These seem to fit the bill though:

43639056_1256381201171063_7326441928906506240_n.jpg

From the top left, clockwise…….

(1) No brains (2) No friends (3) No idea (4) err….oh, just a twat….yes, just a total twat with a face you'd never get tired punching!

Tom
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
I'm glad to see some of the good folk of the north recognise what a crock of hist 'Brexit' is turning out to be.

This part is terrible if factual - perhaps 'Oyster' can confirm or deny the claim?
I'd love that to be a true representation of opinion but I have my doubts...

It will not be so much a case of being allowed to scavenge from the tip, rather of having to.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
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Far from the EU forcing it's controls and laws on us, this is the actual plot of the opt outs all member nations have.
Notably the nation with the most opt outs is of course the UK
The notion we are "Dominated by the EU" is an utter barefaced Lie.
 
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
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West West Wales
Can you see it yet? We doubt it. But you can happily prove us all wrong by starting to think before it’s too late.

Tom
Quite a number of years ago, partner and I went on a weekend trip to Rotterdam to an exhibition of Escher's work.

I wonder how easy that will be next year? Visa? Extra validity on passport required?
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
Not strictly brexit, but would appear to be part of the the wholesale movement...

WHO voices alarm as academics denied visas to visit UK conference
Fears over immigration policy’s impact as at least 10 delegates experience problems
The World Health Organization (WHO) has expressed alarm about the impact of the UK government’s immigration policy on international academic cooperation after several foreign scholars were denied visas to attend a conference.

The organisers of the Global Symposium on Health Systems Research in Liverpool, which runs until Friday, are compiling a dossier of immigration problems that are understood to have affected at least 10 of the event’s 2,000 registered delegates.

They include Sabu Kochupurackal Ulahannan, who is researching nutrition and inequality among children in remote tribal communities in Kerala, south-west India. He was one of 291 delegates awarded a scholarship to attend the event, in an initiative – partly funded by the UK government – aimed at low- and middle-income countries.

But Kochupurackal Ulahannan, who is studying for a doctorate at Sree Chitra Tirunal Institute for Medical Sciences and Technology in Thiruvananthapuram, the state capital of Kerala, was denied a visa by UK immigration officials. He was told he had an “insufficient balance” on his bank account.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/09/who-voices-alarm-academics-denied-visas-to-visit-uk-conference
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,197
30,602
Far from the EU forcing it's controls and laws on us, this is the actual plot of the opt outs all member nations have.
Notably the nation with the most opt outs is of course the UK
The notion we are "Dominated by the EU" is an utter barefaced Lie.
As I've always maintained, we've never been proper members of the EU. All we are really leaving is some of its most valuable parts of membership, self inflicted harm.
.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
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As I've always maintained, we've never been proper members of the EU. All we are really leaving is some of its most valuable parts of membership, self inflicted harm.
.
That document is actually the most damning evidence yet against the Leave Campaign claims that we are Dominated by the EU.
No wonder they claimed we could still remain in the single market and customs union, they were just about the only things we actually involved ourselves in.
The only thing they wanted was to get them without even paying for them.

The chart of opt outs it makes clear that we are simply outsiders parasitic on the community, and frankly the EU is fortunate to be rid of such a millstone to progress.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
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So Theresa May appoints minister for suicide prevention?
Try cancelling Brexit, then resigning and taking the whole Tory political machine along with the DWP away might be more effective
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
Adding to those earning £50,000 - this time hopefully for doing nothing:

Emergency workers being hired to handle post-Brexit disruption

Ministry advertises for resilience advisers, saying ‘we plan for all scenarios’

A team of civil emergency workers are being recruited on salaries of up to £50,000 a year to help the country cope with any fallout from Brexit.


The government has posted adverts looking for resilience advisers to handle any “disruption” caused by the various permutations of Britain’s exit from the European Union next year. The specialists would be employed until June 2019 but “with the possibility of extension or permanency”.


The resilience and emergency division (Red) posts are billed as “exciting and challenging” and come with a £45,938 salary, rising to £50,006 in London.


Applicants are told Red helps communities across the UK to “respond to and recover from civil emergencies of all types”. The job advertisement, posted by the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government (MHCLG) calls for three resilience advisers for “EU exit readiness and response support to local preparedness”.

Key skills for the roles include being proficient in “strategic thinking” and communicating confidently and effectively with a range of audiences including ministers.


The advert said: “We have nine-month secondment opportunities (with the possibility of extension) to support MHCLG’s preparations for EU exit, both in the case of a no-deal or negotiated exit. These roles are to provide support to the local resilience community to develop, test and exercise plans for the mitigation of any disruption following our exit from the EU.”


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/10/emergency-workers-being-hired-to-handle-post-brexit-disruption

I had been going to truncate the article somewhat shorter, but that bit in the last quoted paragraph about extensions just seemed too important to lop.

The "creation" of yet another totally contrived acronym induced a fit somewhere between vomiting and laughing out loud. You really don't want a more detailed description...
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
Adding to those earning £50,000 - this time hopefully for doing nothing:

Emergency workers being hired to handle post-Brexit disruption

Ministry advertises for resilience advisers, saying ‘we plan for all scenarios’

A team of civil emergency workers are being recruited on salaries of up to £50,000 a year to help the country cope with any fallout from Brexit.


The government has posted adverts looking for resilience advisers to handle any “disruption” caused by the various permutations of Britain’s exit from the European Union next year. The specialists would be employed until June 2019 but “with the possibility of extension or permanency”.


The resilience and emergency division (Red) posts are billed as “exciting and challenging” and come with a £45,938 salary, rising to £50,006 in London.


Applicants are told Red helps communities across the UK to “respond to and recover from civil emergencies of all types”. The job advertisement, posted by the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government (MHCLG) calls for three resilience advisers for “EU exit readiness and response support to local preparedness”.

Key skills for the roles include being proficient in “strategic thinking” and communicating confidently and effectively with a range of audiences including ministers.


The advert said: “We have nine-month secondment opportunities (with the possibility of extension) to support MHCLG’s preparations for EU exit, both in the case of a no-deal or negotiated exit. These roles are to provide support to the local resilience community to develop, test and exercise plans for the mitigation of any disruption following our exit from the EU.”


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/10/emergency-workers-being-hired-to-handle-post-brexit-disruption

I had been going to truncate the article somewhat shorter, but that bit in the last quoted paragraph about extensions just seemed too important to lop.

The "creation" of yet another totally contrived acronym induced a fit somewhere between vomiting and laughing out loud. You really don't want a more detailed description...
This is incredible, we have a Right wing government recruiting Commissars and calling them "Reds"
Does the job come will the usual Soviet uniform, jackboots and all?

And the funniest part is this

"Key skills for the roles include being proficient in “strategic thinking” and communicating confidently and effectively with a range of audiences including ministers."

Easier to pass a camel through the eye of a needle than to get Conservative goons to do any of that.
 
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
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West West Wales
This is incredible, we have a Right wing government recruiting Comissars and calling them "Reds"
It does make you wonder where they will be deployed. Under beds?

Also, just how many of these are they expecting to recruit? If there is a serious need for them, they will need large numbers. If not, it is likely a waste of money. They use the word "three" but that is ridiculous - you couldn't even have a brief phone call with all the local communities at that sort of number.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,372
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wooshbikes.co.uk
you are going to hear a new word in brexit lexicon: 'customs regime'.
It's not a customs union, not 'the' customs union, it's a kind of temporary membership of the EU's customs union that the UK will remain in until a trade deal with the EU is in place.
"U.K. and EU diplomats said that intense negotiating over the next five days could result in a provisional agreement on the issue Monday."
it seems that the DUP and TM are protecting remainers' interest in brexit.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-10/brexit-talks-zero-in-on-u-k-customs-fix-as-deal-optimism-grows
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
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It does make you wonder where they will be deployed. Under beds?

Also, just how many of these are they expecting to recruit? If there is a serious need for them, they will need large numbers. If not, it is likely a waste of money. They use the word "three" but that is ridiculous - you couldn't even have a brief phone call with all the local communities at that sort of number.
I think the Government have been watching too many American Disaster movies where a single genius steps forward at the moment of greatest danger and saves the world!
And all for less than a fraction of the cost of someone who can kick a ball.:cool:
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
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80
you are going to hear a new word in brexit lexicon: 'customs regime'.
It's not a customs union, not 'the' customs union, it's a kind of temporary membership of the EU's customs union that the UK will remain in until a trade deal with the EU is in place.
"U.K. and EU diplomats said that intense negotiating over the next five days could result in a provisional agreement on the issue Monday."
it seems that the DUP and TM are protecting remainers' interest in brexit.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-10/brexit-talks-zero-in-on-u-k-customs-fix-as-deal-optimism-grows
And there's more bad news on that site
"
U.S. Threatens to Block U.K. From Global Procurement Pact
By
Bryce Baschuk
9 October 2018, 16:58 GMT+1 Updated on 10 October 2018, 05:00 GMT+1
  • Britain is seeking to rejoin Government Procurement Agreement
  • The 46-nation accord represents $1.7 trillion in global trade
The U.S. is threatening to block the U.K. from a 46-nation public procurement agreement, a move that would deny British companies from accessing a near $2 trillion-dollar marketplace after leaving the European Union, according to two officials with knowledge of the situation.

The U.K. will apply to rejoin the Government Procurement Agreement, a $1.7 trillion trade accord that governs global appropriation rules, since it will lose its membership after Brexit in March. U.S. negotiators have told their British counterparts that their application is outdated and needs to be revised, said the officials, who asked not to be identified because talks are ongoing.

If blocked from the pact, U.K. companies such as Rolls-Royce Holdings Plc and Serco Group Plc would lose access to members’ procurement processes, including the $837 billion U.S. market. The U.K. will ask GPA participants to provisionally approve its final offer to join the accord during an Oct. 17 meeting at the WTO headquarters in Geneva. Any member can block the U.K.’s accession bid.

A spokeswoman at the office of the U.S. Trade Representative didn’t respond to emails seeking comment.

What has become crystal clear is that not only were the leave voters kidding themselves they knew what they were voting for and getting into.

No one else knew what we were getting into (or out of) either.:(
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,197
30,602
you are going to hear a new word in brexit lexicon: 'customs regime'.
It's not a customs union, not 'the' customs union, it's a kind of temporary membership of the EU's customs union that the UK will remain in until a trade deal with the EU is in place.
"U.K. and EU diplomats said that intense negotiating over the next five days could result in a provisional agreement on the issue Monday."
it seems that the DUP and TM are protecting remainers' interest in brexit.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-10/brexit-talks-zero-in-on-u-k-customs-fix-as-deal-optimism-grows
I think this one is a two way street, not just us wanting it. Mainly EU based manufacturers with big interests in not having any barrier, such as BMW and VW, are very alarmed by the risk of delays and tariffs.

It's why I've maintained that there's been a deal in place for a while now with just some details to be ironed out.
.
 
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