Brexit, for once some facts.

[oyster]

Some more observations...

On Brexit, the Tories are gaslighting half the country

Rafael Behr
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The past is being chased out of view more aggressively than it might naturally recede. In the autumn of 2015, Tory MPs were still celebrating victory in an election won by David Cameron on a manifesto promising to “preserve the integrity of the single market”. How many MPs currently serving in Theresa May’s cabinet rejected that view? How many said that the single market was disposable because escape from the EU was a more valuable prize? The answer is none. Not one of May’s ministers – including those who speak of Brexit now as if they had yearned for it since childhood – saw fit to mention that feeling in public just three years ago.

Even on the back benches, “Eurosceptic” recently meant resistance to further European integration and a demand that powers exercised in Brussels be “repatriated”. The view that such a goal could only be achieved by quitting the club was explicitly held by about a dozen Tory MPs – including two who defected to Ukip in 2014. By referendum polling day, there was still not a majority of Conservative parliamentarians prepared to say that Brexit was a good idea.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/08/brexit-tories-gaslighting-britain-pro-european

 

[oyster]

Do they know where they would like their Trident missiles delivered?

wheeler

I have a suspicion that the answer from some would be:
European Parliament
Bât. Altiero Spinelli
60 rue Wiertz / Wiertzstraat 60
B-1047 - Bruxelles/Brussels
Belgium

 

[oldtom]

Do they know where they would like their Trident missiles delivered?

They probably never gave that a thought but maybe the Scots could consider how they are delivered!

Mmm……on second thoughts, the land of the water of life is too close to avoid the collateral damage of what I have in mind!

Tom

 

[wheeler]

They probably never gave that a thought but maybe the Scots could consider how they are delivered

I was thinking they would go by lorry, I can't see the Americans giving permission to use the missiles' self delivery option.

wheeler

 

[oyster]

I was thinking they would go by lorry, I can't see the Americans giving permission to use the missiles' self delivery option.

wheeler

Too close to a trump golf course.

 

[tillson]

Except of course for the offspring of the Elite but then a vote for Brexit was a fillip for the offshore bank accounts, wasn't it?

Wonder why they are more deserving, when they too haven't done a damn thing to deserve it?
Where they born with a right to these things because their parents were either more fortunate themselves, or even because their parents had put in the work and could afford to indulge them?

Why is one child considered more deserving than another?
Sorry that doesn't work for me at all
I can see a time too, when these same young people with "Pretend degrees"in "Pretend Subjects" become very unhappy with the "pretend Jobs" they are offered after their hard work to get them.

They are likely to be very unhappy too what they perceive as an injustice at being denied the goodies that they imagine the previous generation got so easlily and clutch to their bosoms (rightly or wrongly )and deny them, and react in a very unpleasant way.

Indeed they will not go travelling to find themselves, but for far less sociably acceptable reasons
Brexit had better work, or this section of the public will be the cause of big trouble.

You mentioned “hard work” to obtain the degrees. Many of these degrees are little more than attendance certificates. My niece realised she had been conned during her first year at university when lecture time was just 1.5 hours per week. Fortunately she had the gumption to see it was heading nowhere,except debt, and binned the course. She has since trained as a technician/ assistant in operating theatres for the NHS and loves it. Saved up a deposit and is buying a flat.

 

[oldgroaner]

You mentioned “hard work” to obtain the degrees. Many of these degrees are little more than attendance certificates. My niece realised she had been conned during her first year at university when lecture time was just 1.5 hours per week. Fortunately she had the gumption to see it was heading nowhere,except debt, and binned the course. She has since trained as a technician/ assistant in operating theatres for the NHS and loves it. Saved up a deposit and is buying a flat.

That of course isn't always the case is it?
Far too easy to be scornful and dismissive of the optimism of the young, when there is a genuine need for change to the system, and remember, those on the courses don't set the curriculum, nor have much idea of what they are getting into when they start.
Remember what happened to your niece? was it her fault because she was looking for an easy course to do? of course not, and the same goes for all the other students.
How many feel trapped and peer and parent pressure keeps them going?

 

[oldtom]

I suppose that this thread has slipped away from the real topic not for the first time but perhaps that's no bad thing?

On the subject of education, for many years I have believed that British society has lost its way with this hugely important area of child development and a thorough root and branch overhaul of the system is required to get matters back on track.

Without getting too deeply involved, there are some obvious (to me) areas that need to be addressed before even touching the content of material that forms the education and upbringing of the nation's children and young people.

Number one on my list of changes would be to abolish charitable status for all schools and educational establishments regardless of the name or description they have accorded themselves.

Number two would be to abolish faith schools and create equality for all children with matters of religious instruction removed from the curriculum to be dealt with elsewhere under parental responsibility.

I'll stop there as it's a massive and extremely complex subject (no pun intended) but I believe the education system needs to be run as a not-for-profit service, rather than as a business designed primarily to create wealth for a few and line the pockets of shareholders supporting cartels of venture capitalists.

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

Morning Spin from the Daily Express
"
BREXIT DELAYED: Brussels stop release of KEY future trade declaration as talks stall AGAIN
POSITIVITY surrounding Brexit has been derailed after European Union bosses delayed the publication of a crucial document outlining the future trading partnership between Brussels and United Kingdom.

So it's the fault of the EU is it?
Er no actually this is the reason
"It is understood Mr Barnier requested the delay because of a shift in the UK position, potentially fuelled by reports Theresa May was ready to publish a new Irish backstop proposal."

 

[Woosh]

do you watch BBC1 'Press' drama? 'The Post' in this drama reminds me of the Daily Express. The headlines are written by the 'backbench' to 'engage readers', not by the guys who write the articles.

 

[oyster]

'Long way from party of Churchill and Thatcher' - Hillary Clinton condemns Tories for backing Orbán
Hillary Clinton, the former US secretary of state, has condemned the Conservative party for voting in the European parliament against measures to censure the Hungarian leader Viktor Orbán for his increasingly repressive policies. Speaking in Oxford this morning, she said:

I hope the European Union, and the people of Europe, will resist the backsliding [on human rights] we are seeing in the east. It’s disheartening to watch Conservatives in Brussels vote to shield Viktor Orbán from censure – including British Tories. They’ve come a long way from the party of Churchill and Thatcher.

The slide towards autocracy is at least as graver threat to the European project as the financial crisis or Brexit. It is also a threat to Nato.

 

[oldgroaner]

Interest headline on Sky News
"
Government figures could be preparing for UK to rejoin EU - former Brexit minister
Steve Baker, who quit the Brexit department in July, suggests "powerful forces" could be trying to engineer the softest exit.
"Steve Baker, who quit the Brexit department in July, suggested "powerful forces" were seeking to keep the country in arrangements similar to the single market and customs union."

Sorry pal, but the leave group all campaigned on the principle that we could retain both the Single Market and Customs Union, saying "There was no possibility that we would have to give up either"

So what the heck are you on about? it appears the Government is actually for once "Respecting the Will of the people" and now it doesn't suit you?

 

[tillson]

'Long way from party of Churchill and Thatcher' - Hillary Clinton condemns Tories for backing Orbán
Hillary Clinton, the former US secretary of state, has condemned the Conservative party for voting in the European parliament against measures to censure the Hungarian leader Viktor Orbán for his increasingly repressive policies. Speaking in Oxford this morning, she said:

I hope the European Union, and the people of Europe, will resist the backsliding [on human rights] we are seeing in the east. It’s disheartening to watch Conservatives in Brussels vote to shield Viktor Orbán from censure – including British Tories. They’ve come a long way from the party of Churchill and Thatcher.

The slide towards autocracy is at least as graver threat to the European project as the financial crisis or Brexit. It is also a threat to Nato.

Who is Hillary Clinton? Has she done something?

 

[oldgroaner]

Who is Hillary Clinton? Has she done something?

Been robbed in a rigged electoral system you can win when you get less votes than the opposition?

 

[flecc]

Who is Hillary Clinton? Has she done something?

Yes, clung onto the coat tails of a successful man.
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[tillson]

Been robbed in a rigged electoral system you can win when you get less votes than the opposition?

Them grapes still taste nice & sour.

 

[oldgroaner]

Not with you

Them grapes still taste sour.

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

 

[Danidl]

Who is Hillary Clinton? Has she done something?

I believe she was US Secretary of State, when they used to have a foreign policy. But maybe I'm dreaming.

 

[oldgroaner]

I believe she was US Secretary of State, when they used to have a foreign policy. But maybe I'm dreaming.

This is true, indeed she was.

 

[oldgroaner]

According to the Independent
"
Michael Gove skips climate change summit day after UN report calls for urgent action to avoid global disaster
Environment Secretary sent junior minister as stand-in at meeting of his counterparts

Here's my climate change prediction

These sudden day trips to Afghanistan will become increasingly popular among the Brexiteers
Kimmo Tiilikainen, the Finnish environment minister said: “Yesterday we got the latest scientific news from the IPCC’s special report and it shows that we must do more and we must do it faster in order to keep global warming at a bearable level.


“Although the European Union is a leading actor in climate action, also we must do more.”

The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs press office was given a deadline to respond to this story, which it missed.

Sorry Avoided