Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Guy Verhofstadt explains it better than me. Ukraine has an association framework with the UK. That is the starting point. GV reckons it will take 10 years to work out what it is going to be. Roughly speaking, we want participation in the SM like EFTA members - outside the customs union so we must have a mechanism to allow goods to circulate freely across the EU border, like Switzerland.
Let's say TM somehow succeeds.
There will much less incentive for foreign companies to up stick and go.
Our quality as a pragmatic people when it comes to trade, our well understood and transparent legal system will entice more foreign companies to invest after that deal is achieved.

There will be no advantage we can offer greater than that any nation inside the EU directly can offer. the advatage we enjoyed will simply transfer to one of the mainland nations.
After all the only thing that brought the Japanese here was massive financial bribes and a platform inside the EU
Plenty of EU nations can offer the same and they are inside the Customs Union too

Well understood legal system? that would be the ECJ, once again on the mainland.
Why invest here? the place has a dodgy and corrupt financial system and as Brexit has shown lacks the political stability it once appeared to.

No good looking at our investor class either, they are happy to invest in mainland Europe and the far east, and their money is now safely squirrelled away in offshore bank accounts safe from the EU

And the population is split down the middle, a sure source of future instability

In the Telegraph this morning the Maybot gave a clear warning of what is intended
"
Our mission goes beyond Brexit – to comprehensively renew politics in this country"

What could that be? surely not trying to chang the ecomony along the lines of Singapore?
This from someone who can't control even her own cabinet to go in a single direction?
For instance this headline shows what the Brexiteers have done behind her back
"
Donald Trump's aide held secret talks with Brexiteers over trade deal agreement"
What outside nation wants to invest in a country where the Govenment can't even rule itself and factions fight like rats for power?

There will be hell to pay.

We have shot ourselves in both feet, haven't we?

Sorry

 

[Woosh]

the tories won't be ruling for very long.
you have to think beyond the current administration.

 

[oldgroaner]

the tories won't be ruling for very long.
you have to think beyond the current administration.

To what exactly? a quasi socialist government that has even less popular appeal?
And the press and Elite united against it?
Worse still it can't present a united face either can it? and faces trying to make an unworkable Brexit not cause a level of reaction so severe that the torys get back in and people forget that they caused the situation in the first place.
The best thing Labour can do is go home for ten years and leave the Government to sort out the mess it created.
Getting involved will poison their reputation for a generation.

 

[oldgroaner]

In the Sunday Express
"
Snap General Election? Theresa May calls for 1,000 NEW POLICIES by 2019 Tory conference


THERESA May has called on Conservative MPs and peers to propose 1000 new policy proposa...

Imagine how that will read to Foreign investors!

 

[Woosh]

To what exactly? a quasi socialist government that has even less popular appeal?
And the press and Elite united against it?
Worse still it can't present a united face either can it? and faces trying to make an unworkable Brexit not cause a level of reaction so severe that the torys get back in and people forget that they caused the situation in the first place.
The best thing Labour can do is go home for ten years and leave the Government to sort out the mess it created.
Getting involved will poison their reputation for a generation.

You know that I'd like a coalition government but imagine for a minute JC as PM post March 29, 2019. What would he do? would he do better than the current bunch?

 

[oldgroaner]

More background here for those not afraid of "Experts"
http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86915

Services without a smile ....

 

[oldgroaner]

You know that I'd like a coalition government but imagine for a minute JC as PM post March 29, 2019. What would he do? would he do better than the current bunch?

No, because no one can, the situation can only be improved by prevention of Brexit.

And by the way we already have in effect a coalition government
Unfortunately it's a coalition of the guilty.

 

[Woosh]

No, because no one can, the situation can only be improved by prevention of Brexit.

And by the way we already have in effect a coalition government
Unfortunately it's a coalition of the guilty.

the current coalition is conservatives + UKIP conservatives + NI conservatives. There is not much a tempering influence.
The associate membership of the EU is an interesting route, you should look at it objectively rather than dismiss it out of hand because it is brexit. If you entertain the idea that the conservatives lose the next GE, the next PM will shape brexit, not TM.

 

[oldgroaner]

the current coalition is conservatives + UKIP conservatives + NI conservatives. There is not much a tempering influence.
The associate membership of the EU is an interesting route, you should look at it objectively rather than dismiss it out of hand because it is brexit. If you entertain the idea that the conservatives lose the next GE, the next PM will shape brexit, not TM.

I see no advantage of Brexit in any shape or form, it is simply the future refusing to be born, to suit a right wing faction's financial swindles.

 

[Woosh]

I see no advantage of Brexit in any shape or form, it is simply the future refusing to be born, to suit a right wing faction's financial swindles.

there has been and will always be, as you call them, the right wing faction's financial swindles - nothing will change there, but forget them, they are a tiny minority. What is important is to succeed in protecting the best bits of our time inside the EU and continue to cooperate with the EU in the future. Brexit will let us look out a little further than our old friends and neighbours.

 

[oldgroaner]

there has been and will always be, as you call them, the right wing faction's financial swindles - nothing will change there, but forget them, they are a tiny minority. What is important is to succeed in protecting the best bits of our time inside the EU and continue to cooperate with the EU in the future. Brexit will let us look out a little further than our old friends and neighbours.

And achieve what?

 

[flecc]

If you entertain the idea that the conservatives lose the next GE, the next PM will shape brexit, not TM.

That will be Jeremy and John then. They'll try to invest our way out of difficulties with borrowed money to expand the economy. Within Brexit that will fail and send us towards bankruptcy. So like last time, the IMF will come in to take over the management of the economy, putting us all into a financial straight jacket for years.

Eventually we'll lurch punch drunk towards the next general election when with Labour tired and lacklustre, the Tories will announce a new manifesto. Key to that will be radical policies for recovery, such as bringing back fox hunting and doubling the number of grammar schools.

As Frazer would have it, "We're all doomed, doomed I tell you".
.

 

[Woosh]

As Frazer would have it, "We're all doomed, doomed I tell you".

that's why I'd like a LibLab coalition. Borrow to invest but prudently.

 

[Woosh]

And achieve what?

If you compare the UK to your own business, the primary concern is to sell your stuff, then hire people and buy stuff.
We have to look out where economic growth is coming from.
the immediate future growth is the Pacific Rim, then next century, Africa.
Can we do better than the EU on our own? I don't think so but we may if we work closely with the EU and spread out from there.

 

[oyster]

1000 new policy proposals

They can't even get ONE policy agreed and sorted when it has overwhelming support. Even the infamous upskirt bill which was a) opposed by one of the government's own MPs; b) seen to have a major deficit (doing it for money bad, doing it for other reasons was not going to be banned).

 

[oldgroaner]

If you compare the UK to your own business, the primary concern is to sell your stuff, then hire people and buy stuff.
We have to look out where economic growth is coming from.
the immediate future growth is the Pacific Rim, then next century, Africa.
Can we do better than the EU on our own? I don't think so but we may if we work closely with the EU and spread out from there.

Carry that same logic to it's conclusion and don't leave in the first place!

 

[oldgroaner]

If you compare the UK to your own business, the primary concern is to sell your stuff, then hire people and buy stuff.
We have to look out where economic growth is coming from.
the immediate future growth is the Pacific Rim, then next century, Africa.
Can we do better than the EU on our own? I don't think so but we may if we work closely with the EU and spread out from there.

And what do you intend selling to the Pacific Rim they can't get locally, cheaper and better?

 

[oyster]

And by the way we already have in effect a coalition government
Unfortunately it's a coalition of the guilty.

The tories themselves are a bizarre coalition of irreconcilable factions. They are only together for one reason I can see - almost whichever faction or policy you look at would not gather enough support for that faction to turn into a cohesive party.

 

[oldgroaner]

If you compare the UK to your own business, the primary concern is to sell your stuff, then hire people and buy stuff.
We have to look out where economic growth is coming from.
the immediate future growth is the Pacific Rim, then next century, Africa.
Can we do better than the EU on our own? I don't think so but we may if we work closely with the EU and spread out from there.

Try desperately to get back in is more likely, after all .
http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-britain-rejoin-eu-transition-philippe-lamberts-theresa-may-2018-3

Remember what Boris said? on the 21st Feb 2016?

Boris Johnson tonight raised the possibility of Britain still remaining a member of the European Union even if it voted to leave.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/social-affairs/politics/news/68437/boris-johnson-vote-leave-get-better-eu-deal-britain

He fancied a spot of Blackmail....

 

[Woosh]

Carry that same logic to it's conclusion and don't leave in the first place!

the centre of gravity inside the EU is somewhere in Spain. The EU will grow safely but not very fast, its main objectives are equalisation and protection for the consumers and the environment.
I started my business as a manufacturer, I could see the writing on the wall when I had to stop getting my double layer plated through hole PCBs in the UK. That was in 1983. I bought my PCBs from Taiwan. Resistance was absolutely futile.
Now I have to face the EU's anti dumping duty on e-bikes. Should I look further or continue with my current suppliers?